dnewton is a punkass bitch

[Vesnic]

Some asshole named dnewton has just rated a bunch of stories with a 1, including my baby, Country from Hell. This shit really does piss me off. The fewer lists a story shows up in, the less it gets read. Fucking A. I reset the ratings and asked the two people who had rated it to please resubmit. I guess nothing will ever be done about this. I probably shouldn't care, but I do.

I have to sign off now for some bullshit with the Comcast guys, but another story that got whacked was Teatime of Infinity. Usoki, you might wanna check it out.

Fuck you, dnewton.

[donteatpoop]

What a perfect opportunity to revisit my infinite-story weighted system which would virtually elimenate this sort of nonsense from happening (and it happens far to often to ignore):

The point system would be simple enough, I have two story, each have been rated four times and were rated ten on each rating, my total "points" would be 80 (each rating counts as a total point value) These points factor into me "level" of rating. An idiot user who writes ten stories of absolute shit and has had five ratings of "1" on each would have a total of 50 points. Say the users' level increases every 30 to 40 points or so: Level 1 (0-29pts) Your vote counts as one. Level 2: (30-59pts) Your vote counts as two. (ETC, ETC)

I think that could work out nicely here. However, this would be unfair to users like dragavan, who has ten ratings on one of his stories (9.1 average = 91 points). While 91 points isn't so bad, the idiot mentioned above can obtain more points depending on how many stories they put out.

what about point values for each story rated, regardless of the rating? (5 or so?) Or like 5 points for rating a story and 10 for leaving a comment, or something similar.

This would mean more people rating stories, and more comments, which in turn would give other users more points.

A suggested level tier would be the following:

Level 1: 0-149
Level 2: 150-349
Level 3: 350-649
Level 4: 650-999
Level 5: 1000-1499
Level 6: 1500-2049
Level 7: 2050-2799
Level 8: 2800-3699
Level 9: 3700-4999
Level 10: 5000+


I suggest a cap at 10. As you can see, the point total it takes to reach the "next level" increases. I capped it off at 10, since.. Shit, that would make that persons' weight 10 times that of a n00b. I don't think it should go past ten, but ten would take a long while to hit and is certainly a goal.

Not only would this help in making the rating system better (though of course not perfect), it would also give users an additional goal, which should (in theory) attract more visitors, or at least have people stick around longer aching to reach the next level.

Also, there would need to be a way to lose points, like maybe with how far off of the average "true" rating your score is resulting in a loss of some points? That way you can't just fuck around and expect to stay on top.

[apotheosis]

I just think we need a ratings moderator who can delete unfair ratings.

[donteatpoop]

Do you remember anything else he rated? I'm curious to see how/what he was doing...

[Dragavan]

Some asshole named dnewton has just rated a bunch of stories with a 1, including my baby, Country from Hell...

Yeah, you call 3 stories a Bunch (assuming you cleared your ratings to get rid of his).

Do you remember anything else he rated? I'm curious to see how/what he was doing...

All that is listed in his ratings section are the following (all on the same day).

Choose your own Harry Potter Fanfic he rated 1
Lollik's Tale he rated 2
The Teatime Of Infinity he rated 1
Pokemon Adventure! he rated 6

...and that's it. I don't see this as an abuser, just not a fan of stories apparently. Odds are he will not come back ever again in a little while and he will be forgotten.

But, I think a simple weighted system based on number of ratings and comments could be a good things. I would leave the exact math and algorithms secret so help cut down on people who would like to find ways to abuse it (as has happened on nearly every site with a weighted system).

[End Master]

Just view his ratings from his profile.

Choose your own Harry Potter Fanfic 1
Lollik's Tale 2
The Teatime Of Infinity 1
Pokemon Adventure! 6

EDIT: Drag beat me to it.

[Usoki]

Well, I'm not quite as protective of Teatime as I am some of my other works, so I'm not quite as pissed off as I could be. Also, out of all of my stories, Teatime has the most buffer. So, really, he attacked the best one. I've got ten ratings in the 9-10 range; anything else would suffer far worse.

Still, if we can't have a weighted system, could we at least have the option to delete blank or bogus comments? That is, if we required a review to be put into the box, people'd just pound gibberish on their keyboard. So, someone should be able to delete blank and bogus crap like that. That'd go a long way on fighting crap ratings like that.

[End Master]

Yeah, I prefer that idea Usoki.

I've said it before, dumb ass comments annoy me far more than random ratings of "1"

[Vesnic]

...and that's it. I don't see this as an abuser, just not a fan of stories apparently.


I disagree. This is absolutely an abuse. It's even worse that he DIDN'T leave any comments to at least leave a valid explanation. I'm sorry, but I poured my heart and soul into that story and it won the contest. By no means does it deserve a rating of one. I don't care what's done to fix it at this point, as long as it's fixed.

[donteatpoop]

Comments should be mandatory, and have a minimum character count. And yes, I am aware that we will still get asddfghdghk for the comments, but it should convert a few of them at least. And we already have blanks, so I don't see gibberish as a step down at all.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Coming from you, Dragavan, I must disagree wholeheartedly as well.

Back in the day, when I would rate your stories with a one, you created quite a fuss. Maybe not on the forums, but with private messages. And yes, three stories ARE a bunch.

Seems like you take being the Devil's Advocate a little too far these days. Anyone who would rate Ves's story with a '1' is CLEARLY an abuser. Especially with no comment left to explain their wanton vandalism.

[apotheosis]

Guys, a ratings moderator would solve all of this. I elect End or Dep or Me.

[Usoki]

Elect whatever you want- it means nothing without Sev's support.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

And it's never going to happen. Maybe the sad truth is there is nothing we CAN do about it. Maybe we should all void our ratings like EndMaster used to do and just leave it at that.

Start leaving comments instead of ratings. I think this would be the way to go, but it would require participation from everyone who frequents this forum or this site.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Censorship in its many forms is extremely repugnant to me. For this reason, I don't LIKE any of the solutions to the problem.

However, I do have a few things that I could stand behind... the first a weighted system based on the outcome of a simple IQ test required for registration. I think we should ignore stupid people. I don't care what they have to say anyway. It would be fun to create a completely elitist site with only intelligent people being able to contribute to the value ratings of stories. BUT, that probably won't happen... and it wouldn't stop people like Michael with his 180 IQ from wrecking the system when he is PMSing.

So, how about we create a brute squad of moderators to decide when the system is being abused. A group of four people, four people invited and selected not by us, but by Sev. These people would be responsible for addressing concerns when they are brought forth from individuals. They would be held to a standard of integrity and not permitted to address their own issues. A minimum of two in agreement would be required before a change would go into affect. This is still censorship, but it doesn't establish a dictatorship.

Also, if we established that comments are mandatory for the ratings to count, I wonder if we could arrange it so that comments with spelling errors are excluded. I would be behind that as well.

As a general rule though I dislike the idea of censorship, and feel we should resist the urge to moderate. Even though I have been victimized by MRH's tiny dickhead ratings, I'm not completely behind the idea.

Whatever Sev decides is fine by me.

Oh... and Ves. DNewton would never pass my IQ test. And I bet he has a small prick. And if she's a girl then she's clearly one of the woman hating ones Chubby was talking about the other day.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Well that's the thing, katie. Sev isn't going to appoint ANYONE to ANYTHING. That isn't his style. He hasn't done that EVER in past years and I don't see him changing just because a few of us are whining about this problem.

His response? Stop complaining and be happy with what you got, unless you guys want to start sending me money. THEN, by all means you can complain. Until then be thankful for what you've got. End of story.

My idea is the best. There is an option to leave a COMMENT ONLY with every story. We should use this option. If someone has something mean to say about a story, they can say it there. If they have something kind to say, they can say it there.

The point is you would HAVE to type in SOMETHING which is better than a '1' with no comment.

No one would be censored. The whole rating system is stupid anyway. I like comments with out a numerical value attached to them.

I say we just void all of the ratings on our stories. Like EM used to do.

There really is no other solution because Sev isn't going to change anything or put the work forward to make one of your 'brilliant' plans a reality.

Either that or just deal with the occasional asshole and get over it.

[End Master]

I sort of got tired of nuking my ratings constantly, so I just stop bothering.

Personally I still think things are fine the way they are. Just having the ability of deleting comments would be alright by me. Personally I think the whole idea of having a weighted system sucks. Its too damn elitist. All one has to do is look at Worth 1000 to see that. It's also overly complicated for a site like this.

Having a mod? Meh, I'd actually prefer that to a weighted system mainly because if Sev ever actually picked someone, it would be someone fairly responsible that's here on the forum, so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be in the hands of some mad man. If he picked more than one person to create more of a balance that would probably be better.

But as it was already mentioned none of this is probably going to get implimented and I'd rather see a bunch of other stuff get implimented first to begin with.

EDIT: Am I in the minority? Do you guys get that upset over low ratings with no comments? Because I usually just write such people off as being assholes and move on. I would've thought fucktard comments would've annoyed folks more, since its a bunch of shit you have to constantly read and you can't even respond to (or appropriately insult the fucktard that's making the comment in the first place)

[ChubbyTeletubby]

No, it doesn't really upset me THAT bad. But I think it's only fair to explain WHY you're giving the story the rating your giving it.

I've given out lots of 1s, but at least I explain why in the rating.

I understand Ves's concern, but I think she's just going to have to live with it and not let it get her down.

There will always be critics and assholes out there.

[Vesnic]

EDIT: Am I in the minority? Do you guys get that upset over low ratings with no comments? Because I usually just write such people off as being assholes and move on.

I don't just write for shits and giggles. If this were the case, then I wouldn't bother posting anything online. I do actually want my stuff to be seen, and I know it will get far fewer hits if my story is knocked off of the top-rated page completely. And just on principle, it doesn't seem right that some random asshole who has the maturity level of a fourth grader should have the power to determine whether the story that I worked really hard gets seen or not. I've corrected the problem now, but it would be nice if this didn't have to happen to me and others in the future.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

I understand what you're saying, Ves.

Sad fact is though is that it probably WILL happen again.

So we just need to find a way of coping with it and weathering it. I don't think Sev is gonna really care about it.

Speaking from past experience here. I like the guy but he doesn't seem to appreciate criticism.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

So... if I donate to Sev, you think he'd initiate my IQ test requirement? haha jk. Seriously, dumb people have opinions too...

What we should do is go through the site and give HONORS awards to MUST READ stories. So new people will know what to read regardless of who has the highest ratings. Every now and then we get someone asking on the forums for recommendations, what if there was a place that listed the must read stories not based on ratings, but on some other factor.

I often wonder how many people come to the site and then leave because they clicked a crappy story without realizing what it was and thought it was representative of the site quality. If on the first page our highest honor stories were readily available, then no one would care about ratings. We could just keep a running bibliography sheet.

Perhaps along with the rating feature we could have a "nominate" feature. And if you get a certain number of nominations, you are added to the list... this too could be abused.

CYS has their great stories listed... They only have a few though. I dunno... just a thought.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Ya, why don't you keep your thoughts to yourself. The men are talking, Katie. Please don't interrupt.

:p

You know I only kid!

[Vesnic]

Well this is an interesting idea, and would probably be the easiest to implement. All it would require is a new list on the front page. I think pretty much everyone who contributes regularly to the forums has at least one story that has been well received and would deserve a place on the "must read" list.

Though Chubby and others bring up a good point that all of this is moot if Sev doesn't do anything.

How much exactly is Sev looking for?

[End Master]

I give a yearly donation of $120, but I never got the impression Sev was all that motivated by money. If he was, he would've shut down the site like he did a couple years ago and left it like that.

[Vesnic]

That's too bad. I thought for sure five bucks and a box of Girl Scouts cookies would have done the trick.

Here's a couple of ideas for that hypothetical category brainstormed by me and Katie:

The Best of IS
Infinite Recommendations
Stop, Drop and Read

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Well...good question!

I don't know! Any amount isn't too much, though - I'm sure!

I don't have a penny to spare. So, whatevah. Although it looks like I'm landing a new job that will pay me twice what I'm making now! Just got off the phone with the lady! WOO HOO!!

Back on topic. Maybe we should bring this topic up in the Code Rewrite thread. If we ALL made a clear, short, logical case he might actually listen to us. C'mon folks. Let's do it. Let's be totally polite about and not come across as whiny bitches.

We should first thank him for all the work he's done, and THEN ask for whatever we're going to ask for.

What exactly are we going to ask for?

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

And so no one gets a hurt ego, Sev could set it up like the random stories, which updates every time you click refresh. Except it would come from an exclusive list. Perhaps, it could even be required that stories in this section be completely finished... which would be a strong motivator and knock most of my stories out, but would do a lot for the site quality over all.

[End Master]

Perhaps, it could even be required that stories in this section be completely finished...

Hey a whole section dedicated to me! I heartily approve of this idea!

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Okay, we have a lot of great ideas here.

We need to either

A. categorize them concisely

or

b. all vote on ONE that satisfies everyone, would be simple (whatever that means) to implement for Sev, and include with it a back-up plan. Then bring it before Sev like a petition of sorts with all of our signatures.

This is going to take some organization and tact...which probably means it won't happen given the way you freaks behave.

[Vesnic]

I disagree that they should have to be completed stories, mostly because that would knock out pretty much everyone besides End haha. Why don't we say instead the contest winners are automatically in?

Why don't we compile a list now so we have something to give Sev?

Everyone could post a few stories they feel really strongly about (including their own if this is the case) and a working list can be posted on the appropriate thread.

EDIT: Simulpost there. Congrats on the job, Chubby. Is everyone cool with this idea for the must-read list?

[ChubbyTeletubby]

I disagree Ves. We need to continue brainstorming. Take a day or two to reflect on all of these ideas, then come together and decide.

I like what Katie is proposing a lot. But we need to brainstorm some more. Simplify the plan and come to a consensus.

Ya'll with me here? We need everyone to get involved here if this matters to you. And I think it actually matters a lot to most people. So let's quit being a bunch of whiners, organize ourselves, and VOTE on a plan.

Ya'll with me?

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Wow Chubbs, this new job has you taking command and really being logical. I'm pleased.

As for unfinished stories, it is true that a lot of us fail to complete them, but it could be motivational. If you want to be on the list, finish your story. However, I am not opposed to Ves' idea of the list being a reward for contest winners...

However you guys want to do it is fine. Especially if censorship isn't involved.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Keep the ideas coming folks. Just remember that in the end it needs to be streamlined and simple in it's implementation.

So far I think Katie has the best plan. We'll just have to give everyone time to read over all of this, and join us in our well orchestrated crusade.

Sev is a reasonable man and I think he would respond if we all PMed him with the SAME message.

Remember when he put up that banner? BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND - CHUBBYTELETUBBY!

That was because he was flooded with PMs of a similar nature.

I'm not saying we harass him. But I think he would respect us if we ALL came forward with ONE idea.

Oh, and thank you, Katie. :cool:

I AM feeling logical today. For once.

[Vesnic]

Well, Chubby, Katie and I all seem to be in agreement, so this would be the cue for other people to step forward if they have any other bright ideas or are happy to go along with this one.

[End Master]

Yeah alright, a list of recommended stories is fine.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Well I would just like to add that while I am quite certain EndMaster and Apoth are two extremely bright individuals their push for a 'moderator' is simply unattainable.

I can guarantee you Sev is NOT going to appoint a moderator. As much as I agree with you guys that a moderator WOULD be useful, it simply isn't going to happen. Simply. Simply makes me sound smart. thank you God, for simply.

So let's scratch that idea, shall we?

DEP's idea is pretty wonderful, at first glance. But complicated to implement and easy to abuse. DEP is an extremely bright fellow as well, but I think his idea isn't feasible.

So please, all of you, take Katies grain of sand and make a pearl out of it. If we all come together we CAN get things accomplished. We can fashion this to our liking, and fulfill it's latent greatness.

Keep the ideas coming. A vote deadline should be set, but even IT should be lenient. Sleep on it, Katie and Ves. Give it a couple days. Let your unconscious mind work it's brilliance. We'll figure out something.

What we need now is an '80s MONTAGE!

[Locke]

This issue seems to come up over and over. My own ideas from last time around still pretty much describe my thoughts; they seem to have killed the last topic (http://forums.infinite-story.com/showthread.php?t=121&page=2).

I suppose I don't object to a "best of" list, though the minutiae should be completely fleshed out before it's given form as a full proposal. I'm assuming this will either be a category like the others on the main page, a link like the now-defunct one for "infinite writing tournament," or a criterion readers can use to sort stories in the database (total ratings, total rooms, etc). Regardless of how it's presented, several questions come to mind.

First, is this a simple list, with all entries being equal, or do stories in the list have rankings relative to one another, possibly dependant upon the number of votes each receives? If they're equal, do we rotate randomly the order in which they appear, or simply list them alphabetically, by author, etc?

Second, how are stories selected for inclusion in the new category? I'm assuming there will be some kind of vote or consensus involved, whether as an option appended to each story or as a more private, less formal matter to be resolved in the forum.

Third - who is elegible to vote the stories in? Your complaint seems to be that letting the general public voice their opinions on a story without restriction isn't cutting it, so if your answer to the last question is "everyone" the new category will be little different than the "overall rating" or "top rated" categories, and prone to the same abuses. Site members, forum members, those with on-site stories of their own, a board elected by forum members? Apoth and a bottle of vodka?

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Keep them flowing. Keep them flowing.

We WILL reach a consensus.

I honestly, TRULY, have no idea what any of you are getting at.

Whatsoever. SO. Ya. Whatever. I really think I am not one of you whatsoever.

So ever. What.

No.

Whatever. Katie seems to make the most sense still. Katie, please elaborate on your plan so these simple-minded apes can understand it. I totally caught on to your vibe and it seemed...right...

Yes. Vodka.

Bottle.

Swig.

Median.

Table.

Lights.

*passes out*

ZzzZZzZzZZzZ

[Usoki]

Yes, yes- form a concensus. We got in the first time, Chubby.

But, while finding unfinished stories can be annoying, Ves is right- that'd eliminate too much stuff. Though I resent that only End would end up on that list- there'd be a special guest appearance by Rentyre. XD

Personally, I think a "high-quality" list is an amazing idea. We come up with a list on the forum, (20-40 stories) and submit that to Sev. Then, on a yearly basis, the forum then decides if any other stories (new or improved) should be added. We give the new additions to Sev, he puts them on the list; everyone is happy.

Heck, I think that's be a better list than "Most Popular". Because "Most Popular" and "High Quality" are not the same thing. It'd certainly reflect the site better to have End and DEP and Ves and Katie and FunkyMango and whoever else on the front page, rather than HOID and AMM.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

We Must Form A Consensus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[apotheosis]

I disagree. With all of it.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Nobody asked for your input, apoth.

Now run along.

[Vesnic]

Personally, I think a "high-quality" list is an amazing idea. We come up with a list on the forum, (20-40 stories) and submit that to Sev. Then, on a yearly basis, the forum then decides if any other stories (new or improved) should be added. We give the new additions to Sev, he puts them on the list; everyone is happy.

I think this is very well expressed. It seems like a good number of stories, and it would make it easier on Sev to have a specific interval of time for new additions to this list. As for the order of appearance, I agree that the best way would be to randomize this list as the others on the front page are. As for who gets to decide what is added, I see no reason why this shouldn't be an "elitist" sort of thing. It should be up to the regular members of the forums who are also active authors: end of story. Really, we're doing a service to the casual visitor to the site by handing them a bunch of stories that are highly recommendable.

[Dragavan]

Back in the day, when I would rate your stories with a one, you created quite a fuss. Maybe not on the forums, but with private messages. And yes, three stories ARE a bunch.

Seems like you take being the Devil's Advocate a little too far these days. Anyone who would rate Ves's story with a '1' is CLEARLY an abuser. Especially with no comment left to explain their wanton vandalism.

First off, the reason I made any kind of stink was because you created separate accounts to act as different characters who had different attitudes, and "Old Man Higgens" was a crotchety old fart who hated everything and was rating all sorts of stories with 1's as part of his grumbly character. If he was a real person who really hated the stories, I would not have complained... but it was a joke character you made to play on he forums affecting the "serious" side of the site and that's what I thought was wrong. You screwed up a good, truly earned rating over a forum joke. That was abuse and wrong.

Not liking a story for some reason (who know, perhaps he didn't like it because it made his brain hurt with all those words) is not abuse... although we have no way of knowing why he rated it the way he did since he never left a comment, which I why I always supported the idea of mandatory comments with ratings and possibly a weighted system. I hate Citizen Kane, even though it always tops all the lists of "best movies of all time" that come out in the media from time to time. That doesn't make my low rating of that movie wrong, the same can be said for stories. Rating them for jokes, revenge, and/or multiple times (for good or ill) are what I would seriously call abuse.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

So, we agree... excluding Apoth... that a "best of" list could reduce the stress of unfair and low ratings, and make the site look better as a whole.

Here are some ideas...

for selecting stories:
a) Measurable Standards- we could create measurable standards for people to make the best of list. These standards could include minimum endings, grammar, etc. Measurable standards aren't as exclusive, and might urge others on the site to rise above the mediocrity embraced by society these days.

b) Ves' Idea- elitist choices made by us.

c) We have a vote feature on these forums now. We could make a thread for each story up for consideration and vote. This allows everyone even the people that dislike a story to vote on whether or not it should be on the "best of" list. We could make it once a year, and make a big thing out of it.

for displaying stories:
a) Random order- I discussed this last night with Ves on AIM, and there are multiple benefits of using a randomly generated list.
1. Sev already uses it, so it may not be hard to establish.
2. No one story is going to catch the hearts and minds of everyone that reads it. At least with a random list they have a chance of finding something they like.
3. This list creates a plateau that supersedes the rating system. The ratings won't matter if you make the list no one can take it away from you, and no story is looked upon as higher than another. They are simply all... great.

b) Front page- I think this list should be on the front page so visitors will see them. When company comes to visit we use our fine china, same theory for newcomers. We want to share with them some great stories.

c) I don't remember who suggested it, but the idea to have it as a sorted option could be interesting as well... though, if we can get Sev to agree with the front page idea, it will be sufficient.

Other things:

we need to think about removing stories, at some point is a story eligible to be removed? What is the process for that going to be? How many stories are we going to put on the list to start? I'm sure there's more, but I'm drawing a blank.

~Katie

One more thing... if we nominate stories like we do for the contest, someone should really convince Apoth to get behind this. Because, we will probably want his math skills. Plus, HOID isn't so bad, it is a good place for beginners to start if they are looking to try out the platform.

[donteatpoop]

I think it should be a top 50 list; just cause that's a nice round number.

[End Master]

I was going to say a top 20 list.

EDIT

Okay here’s a top 20, based on former contest winners, ratings, forum activity, writing activity, and a good “mix” of stories.

If we’re going “elitist” here, then I’m suggesting that me and DEP get at least two stories on the top 20.

Time Traveller (Agent Rebellion)
HOID (Apoth)
Forest Dweller (Calen)
Final Quest (Cat 2000)
CRACK ATTACK! (Chubby)
Brothers (DEP)
Paco Valdez (DEP)
From Darkness It Comes (Drag)
Necromancer (End)
Ground Zero (End)
The Black Citadel (Funkymango)
5050 (Ghost)
Draco Cronnoc (Jeff)
Lost in a Good Book (Katie)
Blind Date (Lucid)
Visual Epic (Morathi)
The Yakuza Diaries (Poopypeanuts)
The Thief of Alvera (Thoric)
Rentyre (Usoki)
The Country from Hell (Ves)

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

If Drag's sex story is in, I think one of mine might be ok in.... although it isn't representative of all the other stories on the site. I dunno... whatever everyone wants is fine by me.
~Katie

[End Master]

I didn't include any MA stories. And I figured Drag is prouder of the Darkness story anyway.

The "controversial" and "offensive" story is represented by CRACK ATTACK! mainly because it's rated highly, it's still "R" and it's Chubby only story that he's got on here right now.

[Vesnic]

It looks like a pretty good list to me, even without my Pulitzer prize-winner Gurl PowR!

The one thing that jumped out at me is I think Paradox Factor is more deserving of the list than Blind Date, as far as Lucid's stuff goes.

[End Master]

I guess it could be a toss up between those two.

I just figured Blind Date could represent the "Romance" stories though and I didn't have any of those on the list given that half of them suck and the other half are MA.

[apotheosis]

I really think we could patch up our current system with a ratings moderator and members simply being more diligent about rating stories. Then the top rated section would serve the purpose of this list you guys are making up and it would not be necessary.

[Locke]

I agree with Apoth that nothing over what we have now is really necessary; I'm fine with the way things are. I'm also okay with having a "best of" list, though, and as it seems that most are in favor of it, bring it on - though perhaps with a title that reflects more of a "members' choice" and less of an "elitest" feel. I don't see any reason to stick with a particular number of favorite stories; making it a "top twenty" may result in including a few stories that don't deserve it, or excluding a few that do. Regardless of other factors, simply include those stories worthy of being listed. If that results in certain authors being disproportionately represented, so be it.

As far as removing stories goes, if we're going to put this to an annual vote or some such, just start from scratch each time. Every IS story is always elegible, none gets any kind of "tenure." That will keep the list fresh and allow it to truly represent the best IS has to offer as new and better stories rotate in, while those that might no longer be considered top caliber are retired.

When I was new to this site, like a lot of other readers, I had a hard time finding the really good stories amid the significantly larger number of mediocre and plain bad ones. A "members' choice" list has in its favor less hassle and more appeal for guests, meaning that we keep more of them; I can't see how, with the addition of a little responsibility, it couldn't be of benefit to IS. If members decide differently, though, it can always be removed.

EDIT: It's true that some members, myself included, could be more diligent about rating stories. That'd certainly help out the site no matter what else, if anything, is done. Some sort of moderator system might indeed solve the ratings issue, in the unlikely event Sev were to appoint one, though given a choice between the two I'm in favor of the new list, and measures like the list that go beyond addressing the issue at hand should be considered on their own merits anyway based on what they bring to the site. Requiring a comment with each reader's rating, perhaps of a minimum length, seems like another good idea, and a simple one, that could be adopted on its own or with any of the other propositions.

[End Master]

Well obviously a Mod would be more ideal and solve most of these problems, but it's pretty much been established in the past that Sev likes to keep his site a one man operation.

As far as I know he's only offered Drag the job, and he didn't want it.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Apoth: We can't force other people to rate stories fairly. We don't even have a way to "train" them on how to use the rating system. We could establish guidelines, and we could post them on every page, but there are people that would still abuse the system.

As for having a Moderator, I am almost completely against it. No censorship on IS stories.

Locke: I agree that we don't NEED this system, but that it could be beneficial to the site as a whole. I also like the idea of starting fresh each year. "Member's Choice" has a nice ring to it as well.

End: Drag would be a decent moderator, he wouldn't just fold because people whine. He has really strong ethics, and doesn't generally lose his temper, or act irrationally. However, as it is often with the best leaders... he doesn't want the job. And really, I don't understand why anyone would want the job of suppressing the opinions of others or listening to whiners.

This list removes the rating issue entirely. The new goal isn't 10. The new goal is to be considered good enough for the list.

Also, since it is a randomly refreshed list we don't necessarily need to limit it.

[donteatpoop]

I love telling people to stop whining while suppressing the thoughts of others.

But I think the 'four council members' is a good idea. Two of them approve, then the motion is approved.

Anyway, yeah; the list of 20 is cool. It might be easier to get severenz to do that than any of the other suggested fixes. I like bigger lists, though; cause there are more than 20 high quality stories on here. But whatever. (25 anyone?)

[Vesnic]

Let's use the list that End came up with as a working list and now people can add to it if there is something they feel should be there. I'm inclined to agree that there shouldn't be a set limit to the list--story quality is already a limiting factor to what gets added.

Katie, Locke and I have all said something to the effect that generating this list is not going to do any damage or change pre-existing ratings. It's really a nice thing to do for the people who are casually visiting the site, and a nice thing for us to do for ourselves since it involves peer recognition from the people whose views we are more likely to care about. Who knows? We might even get some more high-quality traffic if potential writers stay around longer because they actually get a good first impression from the site and not something of the mildly retarded Poko-Adventure ilk.

[End Master]

Here's another 5 stories as suggestions

A Tale of Two Choices (Bassoonist)
The Adventures of George W. Bush (curmudgeon)
Paradox Factor (Lucid)
Puppetmaster (Nalan)
Swift, Silent & Deadly (NCPolice)

[Usoki]

Yes, the moderator is a very good solution to the ratings problem. It's also the third or fourth time I've seen it proposed, along with the weighted ratings proposal. It's not going to happen. Sev would have done something about it.

Quite frankly, the list is awesome in several ways. One, it will provide newcomers with quality material. An easy way to see 25+ examples of awesome work? I think it'll definitely improve the retention rate of first-time viewers. As Ves points out, someone new is more likely to stumble upon "Poko-Adventure" crap than they are to stumble upon something awesome. And if they see too much of it? They'll assume the site sucks, and they'll leave. It doesn't help that the "Most Popular" and "Newest Stories" lists are filled with crap that gets main page attention. If I were to browse HOID and somehow miss the few doors that don't suck, I'd assume it's a piece of shit. It's the most popular, and 95% of the damn thing is a list of even more doors. The other "Most Popular" are, as I recall, even worse. Not exactly the best thing to have on our front page. A list of quality would serve the sight far better.

And two, this is something that Sev with be able to initiate, no muss no fuss. I can totally see him implementing this- I don't know much about coding, but I do know it's got to be loads easier than most of the features we ask of him.

Finally, it's win-win. Sev has a very good opportunity to help site traffic, and we have something to strive for. Story ratings come and go- they're generally good to search by, but they're not always the most accurate. This list would be more helpful. If it's on the list, it doesn't suck- even if it is 6.8. Or whatever.

A question, though. I note End's list is limiting one story per author. Is that a limit we really want/need to keep? My ego will survive if End gets three stories on the list and I only get one; and I think it's a fair guess to say so would everyone else's. I think it's much better to focus on quality stories than it is quality authors. Like you've pointed out by trying to pick Lucid's story... Many of us have stories in several different genres. If someone doesn't like romance, they'd never examine the rest of Lucid's work. Just like someone who hates Apocalyptic works might skip End's Ground Zero and never see Necromancer.

[End Master]

I posted the list proposal in the suggestion forum.

EDIT: Kept the double stories for DEP, me and Lucid.