Hey Sev, site ideas! Quality List!

[End Master]

Everyone was in discussion of how sometimes the rating system fails us. Some idiot comes around and rates a story a 1 for no apparent reason which lowers the story on list.

Well in rare form, we actually got organized for once and came up with an idea to combat this.

A proposal was made by Katie that we should have a Member’s Choice list or Best of IS list and everyone pretty much agreed that this would be a good idea. This list would be on the front page and randomized much like you have now except the stories would only be of the highest quality.

The following stories were chosen. More could be added later I guess, but 25 seems good right now.

Time Traveller (Agent Rebellion)
HOID (Apoth)
Forest Dweller (Calen)
Final Quest (Cat 2000)
Doorways (CelticFrostQueen)
CRACK ATTACK! (Chubby)
Ducky Park (DEP)
Paco Valdez (DEP)
From Darkness It Comes (Drag)
Necromancer (End)
Ground Zero (End)
The Black Citadel (Funkymango)
5050 (Ghost)
Draco Cronnoc (Jeff)
Lost in a Good Book (Katie)
Blind Date (Lucid)
Paradox Factor (Lucid)
Visual Epic (Morathi)
Puppetmaster (Nalan)
Just an Ordinary Day in the Life of an Ordinary Girl (Nuquerna)
Swift, Silent & Deadly (NCPolice)
The Yakuza Diaries (Poopypeanuts)
The Thief of Alvera (Thoric)
Rentyre (Usoki)
The Country from Hell (Ves)

[End Master]

Ha ha.

Well, you've got an outstanding amount of war crimes on here. So it's a Pete Rose/Hall of Fame situation. We’ll have to get a ruling during your probationary period which will end at an unspecified date!

If we have to put you on there I’d suggest Verisimilivrate, since I’m really not a fan of stories where the author make themselves the main character so openly. (That's anyone not just you)

But I've never considered Ebay all that great. (Why Jeff loved it so I’ll never know) I'm going to scrap it one day and replace it with something else.

Maybe I should replace one of those stories with Celtic's, though maybe not Vixen Manor. Someone got any other suggestions?

[donteatpoop]

I'll second the versimilimisrev vote.

I really think that should be on the list. There's some it could replace; specifically Tale of Two Choices or George W

[End Master]

Also, I was in Xeresgate, but it wasn't about me. A minor error.

Yeah, but you're still in it as a King. You know I can't support that!

Anyway in the interest of this "Kinder and Gentler" Era of IS, Versissypants is on the list. I'll take the George Bush one off. It's going to be out of date soon anyway.

But getting back to scrapping, I wasn't going to eliminate Ebay completely. I was going to make it part of a group of other short stories that I think are neat ideas, but just aren't going to go too far.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

The thing with Michael is... he's part of the reason we need something like this. He abused the rating system. Do we really want to reward people that abused the system in the first place by putting him on a special list? He is definitely NOT my Member's Choice. However, whatever the group decides is fine by me. I just don't think it is appropriate to include him at this time. This is about making the site look good, and he doesn't exemplify the kind of behavior we want to attract. Just my two cents.
~Katie

[End Master]

Well I'm pretty much in agreement, and most folks will mostly agree that he was being a REAL dickhead last time around. (Or anytime actually)

Like I said, personally I could give a shit who rates me 1s, but given that a lot of other people on here are sick of it, I’m making the effort to help organize this list and I'm being uncharacteristically civilized in the efforts of forum peace, since it has been peaceful around here. (With a few harmless rants here and there)

I would hope if any of the forum members get into another flame war again (And it’s bound to happen given this lot on here) it’s at least kept in the forums. Someone “Revenge Rating” because they lost an argument isn’t the way to go about things and it just makes that person look like more of an asshole.

Now “Revenge Rating” some fucktard’s lame ass story because he rated your story a 1 and said “furries” is a little more acceptable. (Actually it wasn't even revenge, Xamiza's story really did suck) ;)

[End Master]

It was really weird actually. It was like the moment I decided to let my stories be rated (Getting tired of nuking them) you, Katie and I got into a BIG ASS flame war. (I think Ves was in there too and DEP took some pot shots)

It wasn't quite as spectacular as the very first one we had, but it was up there. You got pissed off pretty severely during the arguement and rated a couple of my stories 1s and Katie's stories 1s and disappeared shortly afterwards. (Hooray for my photographic memory of pointless events!)

Anyway, I leave the ratings on my stories now. Plus its funny since you rated Ebay a 1 and made the comment "You'll never get a 10 as long as I draw breath."

Then sometime later you rated Necromancer a 10. :p

EDIT: Alright we're all at least somewhat on a cordial level. The thread's getting derailed here. Does someone have any other story suggestions of what might be a better choice on the current list?

[Locke]

The Members' Choice list should include stories based solely on their literary merit. Regardless of who the author is or which other stories happen to be on the list, if the work merits inclusion we should include it. I haven't read MRH's work (though if the title is any indication, one way or another "How the World Wronged Michael Holt" ought to be interesting) but if it's at least as good as "A Tale of Two Choices" I wholeheartedly endorse it.

Several more of End's stories merit a place. I realize he'll be disproportunately represented, but based on his work, he's earned it. Legend, Death Song, and perhaps Paradise Violated, at least, seem appropriate.

Katie's "The Pattern" is, as I remember, well-written, though when last I saw it, far from complete.

"What Ho" (though a little on the silly side) and perhaps DEP's "The Third Eye" could be considered. Maybe one of those from the movie monster contest. There are likely a few more scattered around I haven't read.

What I did read of "Swift, Silent & Deadly" didn't look promising; the others seem mostly okay at first glance.

[Vesnic]

I disagree with this. I think keeping one piece per person, and two for DEP and End each is a good idea. It's a little more balanced, gives a look into different people's styles, etc. If someone become particularly impressed by the work of one writer, they can always look up that person by name.

[Locke]

So you're suggesting we list the best stories on the site, but limit their inclusion to two per writer, regardless of quality? Even when other stories of comparatively less merit are included? The list would no longer truly be a "best of" list, but if that's the way most want it, so be it. The list as it's currently described will still be of benefit to IS. My other suggestions stand. For clarification, will the list be limited to a certain number of entries?

[Usoki]

I'm gonna have to go with Ves on this one, with a clarification. If the author bounces heavily between two drastic genres (That is, two works are necessary for a sample), or is ridiculously prolific (DEP and End, among others), giving them two different stories makes sense. Otherwise, one is fine.

If we were going for a list of 50+, then we'd throw in all of our favorites. With the smaller list, the more important thing is giving newbs a representative sample- if they like what they read, then they can search by author for more.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

What I think all of you wonderful people are forgetting is that Sev isn't going to implement any of these wonderful ideas.

So let it be written.

[Vesnic]

Let's not be defeatist just yet, Chubby. What we're suggesting is by far the most easily implemented plan we have ever introduced to Sev, and the majority of us are behind it. I think it will happen.

[Locke]

It will probably happen when the new site design premieres. In other words, not overnight, but eventually.

[donteatpoop]

Katie, MRH was being a dick at the time; but how would judging his stories based on his personality be any less fair than what he did?

The point of this list, according to my understanding; was to showcase the highest quality stories on the site so that new visitors can see the good stuff instead of coming accross a bunch of shit.

Now, michael may be a piece of shit more often than not; but he's a damn good writer.

[End Master]

I'm not greedy. I don't need more than 2 of my stories up there at least not with a list this small. If it was 50, then it would be different.

Anyone else think Swift, Silent and Deadly should be replaced?

[donteatpoop]

I'm not greedy. I don't need more than 2 of my stories up there at least not with a list this small. If it was 50, then it would be different.

Anyone else think Swift, Silent and Deadly should be replaced?

That sounds like the fastest quiet fart ever.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Katie, MRH was being a dick at the time; but how would judging his stories based on his personality be any less fair than what he did?

The point of this list, according to my understanding; was to showcase the highest quality stories on the site so that new visitors can see the good stuff instead of coming accross a bunch of shit.

Now, michael may be a piece of shit more often than not; but he's a damn good writer.

As for the list it serves three purposes:
1) To create a system that minimizes the distress of abusive ratings.
2) To allow the patrons of the site easier access to noteworthy stories.
3) To define a standard for the site.

I think that should be the mission.

As for a length, I don't think anything should be removed from End's list. However, I like Locke's idea of adding more. Perhaps we could make it fifty. I'm sure Michael could fit into the top fifty easily.

As always, I support whatever the majority decides.
~Katie

[Locke]

I don't specifically want to add more; I just think the size of the list shouldn't be something that's considered. I believe it should hold every title everyone agrees is good enough to be worth setting apart from the rest and displayed - no more, no less. The list End originally posted is mostly good, though, and I'd be fine with it (though I haven't read the NCPolice entry, and I wasn't too impressed with what I did see of it. Maybe it gets better as one reads further?).

[Vesnic]

The problem is that people are going to be bickering a lot over specific titles. It seems simpler for everyone to have one work that is representative of them, and two for the people who are more prolific and have been here a long time.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Again, my most esteemed colleagues, it is not to happen. And who cares? If but one person reads what I write and appreciates it I am happy.

Well. Happy's not the word.

It's all ego-feeding bullshit. Anyone with half a brain could find the good stories.

All of you are worthy authors. If you wish for the masses to read what you write, establish your own servers, or publish your own shit.

Right?

Otherwise who cares? It's all so utterly futile. Most great authors are not appreciated until 100 years after they shot themselves, anyway. Well. No. Not really. Do you think Van Gogh gives a shit about his artwork now?

Who cares? Well, I guess we all do, huh? I know I do. HA! I'm such a bullshitter!

Well, sev will probably at least read this and say, "Huh. I've got ten million other life issues to address right now."

He is much like the Christian "God".

HAHAHAHA! Oh man. *quaffs another beer* Good stuff.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Again, my most esteemed colleagues, it is not to happen. And who cares? If but one person reads what I write and appreciates it I am happy.

Well. Happy's not the word.

It's all ego-feeding bullshit. Anyone with half a brain could find the good stories.

All of you are worthy authors. If you wish for the masses to read what you write, establish your own servers, or publish your own shit.

Right?

Otherwise who cares? It's all so utterly futile. Most great authors are not appreciated until 100 years after they shot themselves, anyway. Well. No. Not really. Do you think Van Gogh gives a shit about his artwork now?

Who cares? Well, I guess we all do, huh? I know I do. HA! I'm such a bullshitter!

Well, sev will probably at least read this and say, "Huh. I've got ten million other life issues to address right now."

He is much like the Christian "God".

HAHAHAHA! Oh man. *quaffs another beer* Good stuff.

~Archived~

[Usoki]

Yes...but most of our new members only start with a fourth of a brain, and then work their way up gradually as they experience the site and the forum for themselves. Most people are only going to thumb through two or three stories before passing judgement on the site. And it is not that easy to find quality stuff when searching- especially if you don't know who to look for.

[apotheosis]

Legend really needs to be on there to.... and Death Song and Necromancer should be in the same entry since they are continuation.

Sorry to inflate End's ego so much, but four of his stories would make my version of the list.


Also, escape artist has 3 completed difficulty levels... the only story of its genre that rivals it is Morathi's piece, but mine doesn't require you to write down numbers and crap, its all built right in to the story.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

There are arguments for and against limits. If we put ALL of our best on the list then they are easily accessible. If we put a few then the newbies have the pleasure of "discovering" some of the others old school, like we have. However, either way we could still include more without including all. Frankly, I don't care. As long as we all agree.
~Katie

[End Master]

Like I said, I'm not fanatical about Ebay, and HOID is the best rep. we got of the giant random story. Legend isn't actually my favorite either, plus we got Black Citadel and Visual Epic (Which are also both finished) to fill those "game story" roles.

GZ and Necro are the ones I feel are best representative of me.

It's up to DEP if he wants one of his stories switched out. I'm pretty sure he's going to want Paco up there though.

[thoric]

I don't like The Thief of Alvera. Im going to set it back to Private. I don't remember why I made it public again. I don't want it to be representative of my work. When I write something atleast half-decent, you can put that up on the list. I nominate What Ho! in The Thief of Alvera's place.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Hmmm... you know... anyone (Chubby) could make any story private at any time. So all this fuss over a certain number of stories is going to be a moot point in the end.

[apotheosis]

Legend is a lot better than the black citadel and final quest in my opinion. Best RPG on the site. Though, most people don't follow the rules. It's just more fun to use cheat codes and put your character on god mode.

Oh, and I HATE to say this, but MRH is absolutely right. Ducky Park is much better than Brothers. I'd do a switharoo.

I'd even toy with the idea of swapping Gurl Power and The Country From Hell, or including both, just because it is much different from anything else on the site.

EDIT: Also, you guys realize. Within a year of releasing this list, the government will force the genetically superior members of the site to breed and send the rest to camps. We won't be allowed to read banned literature and speaking out against the government will result in execution without trial or jury. This is the doorway to fascism! The only reason I'm not protesting is because the products of democracy have depressed me to no end.

[donteatpoop]

I could give two shits. I like Ducky and I like Brothers. Brothers is longer, but Ducky is pretty much completed.

I don't care either way, whatever is decided is decided.

[End Master]

List seems pretty set now.

[severenz]

I think we are talking about two separate issues:

1. Promoting quality stories
2. Dealing with bad seeds in ratings

They are related in the sense that every author wants their story to be read and be rated well.

I think having a rotating "quality story list" for new readers would be a good thing, but I'll have to think about the fairest way to do this.

In regards to ratings, there will always be the bad seeds that come and rate a bunch of stories with a "1." I think the best way to approach this is to require a comment and to have a "post abuse" button in which I will moderate. If I see a user posting a flurry of 1's on stories, then his ratings can be removed.

Other than that, if your story has a reasonable amount of ratings, the occasional idiot that posts a "1" shouldn't affect it.

I'll have more later on this when I get to ratings in the new code.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Sev is right. It really is two separate issues. Thanks for your consideration in the matter, Sev.

We all truly appreciate it.

[Vesnic]

Thanks, Sev!

We'll all be thrilled with the new changes!

[Usoki]

I think having a rotating "quality story list" for new readers would be a good thing, but I'll have to think about the fairest way to do this.

Take your time. Once it is implemented, it will be awesome.


In regards to ratings, there will always be the bad seeds that come and rate a bunch of stories with a "1." I think the best way to approach this is to require a comment and to have a "post abuse" button in which I will moderate. If I see a user posting a flurry of 1's on stories, then his ratings can be removed.
A solution! Huzzah!

Other than that, if your story has a reasonable amount of ratings, the occasional idiot that posts a "1" shouldn't affect it.


Well, I would argue that most stories don't have a reasonable amount of ratings to absorb a low rating... Teatime had ten high ratings, and that random "1" still dropped the ranking -0.8 points. Most stories barely even have half that number of ratings...

But what can you do about it? Not much, in the end. So there's not too much of a point in complaining about it, other than the sheer joy of venting.

We can only do the best we can, and go from there. Which is why both of your proposed changes rock. Whoo Sev!

[ChubbyTeletubby]

That avatar of Sev's has turned me into a complete 'yes man'.

It's working, Sev. It's working GREAT!

Great job, sir!

[Usoki]

At least I offered up more responses than "yay!" I just happen to agree with his position. I'm too lazy to take full advantage of a weighted ranking system, and I've never been too keen on the thought of a moderator.

I've always been partial to a flagging system, but as I recall, it was shot down due to the fact that there aren't enough people actively viewing story ratings to flag anything in a timely manner. Which is true, but at least it's something.

Besides- IS is free. In the end, complaining about Sev can only go so far- its his site...what are you gonna do about it? How dare he not offer a free service in the way we want him to?

[donteatpoop]

I still like the idea of a moderator council better, but any solution is an improvement and I'm satisfied with this one. Thanks for looking into it, severenz.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

At least I offered up more responses than "yay!" I just happen to agree with his position. I'm too lazy to take full advantage of a weighted ranking system, and I've never been too keen on the thought of a moderator.

I've always been partial to a flagging system, but as I recall, it was shot down due to the fact that there aren't enough people actively viewing story ratings to flag anything in a timely manner. Which is true, but at least it's something.

Besides- IS is free. In the end, complaining about Sev can only go so far- its his site...what are you gonna do about it? How dare he not offer a free service in the way we want him to?

Shut up. 'At least I...at least I...at least I...'

Just shut up, you.

[Leblanc4prez]

If I get around to finishing "Mayhem on Mobius" , "Knuckles adventure" or the new one I'm writing "Eternal Sphere" could they get on? This mignt not happen for a while as I'm easily distr... look that dog has a puffy tail!

Psy: Well LeBlanc has gone chasing a poodle I'll take over this post. For a sample of "Eternal sphere" Please view the thread in off topic named "The many sides of LeBlanc."

[Usoki]

As far as the "Best of" list goes, I just had an idea... Remember that "eligible for voting" feature you took away years ago? I don't remember what it did, but between talking of nixing bookmarks and ratings... What if, alongside the story rating options, there was a checkbox for "Nominate for 'Best of' list" command? And, if a certain number of people nominate the story, it will automatically star appearing in the "Best of" list. To prevent abuse, it might not hurt to have a "Condemn for 'Best of' list" to make sure a swarm of idiots don't come through and crap up the list, but... How feasible is that? It makes the list totally democratic, and therefore pretty damn fair, as far as it goes. That way it's not totally dependent on the forums. But we'd still have an advantage on input as far as "Everyone go nominate 'x' story" goes.

[Vesnic]

The point of the list wasn't to be democratic. It was to allow the people who are regular contributors to the site to make a list of what they determined to be good stories, voted on every few months or once a year or whatever. It's what we, as the most active members of the site, are choosing to b put forth as the best representations of IS. It's also much more easy to implement. If someone really wants to have a voice in adding a certain story to this list, then they are by all means welcome to become a part of the forums. And it's not like we're just creating a good-old-boys (and girls) club here. We are all big enough to recognize quality when we see it and nominate accordingly, regardless of the person's current activity level on the site.

[Usoki]

Since we're the most likely to use such a feature, it's still mostly ours to control. But Sev mentioned something about ease of implementation and fairness 'n stuff.

If anything, it would let new stuff get added instantaneously, rather than once per year.

[Locke]

That's true, as far as it goes, but that also makes it very similar to the rating feature in that the most popular get on the list, and renders the "best of" function vulnerable to the same abuses. In fact, if everyone is permitted to vote, most stories will probably eventually attain the minimum required number for inclusion - that or HOID, Legend and those others will just stay there and not change if it's a list limited to a certain number of stories which receive the most votes. Like it or not, this is going to be somewhat elitest - but it will allow us to put IS's best face forward, and hopefully retain/satisfy more visitors. As long as we're all objective, the pros seem to outweigh the cons significantly.

[Usoki]

Personally, I'm indifferent. But it is democratic. If that's the only way we can have such a list, it wouldn't be a bad way of setting it up.

[Vesnic]

Fuck democracy! Don't people recognize the good points of elitist fascism when they see it?!

[End Master]

It's still democratic, since anyone can join the forums and make their opinions known. It's just that only a few of us choose to do so. As a result the silent majority doesn't get a say in the matter.