IWT5 Ratings

[Vesnic]

In light of the low contribution level for this contest, I really don't think people need a whole month to rate and comment on the stories. I have gotten some consensus on this, and everyone I have asked is in agreement.

I propose that the deadline for rating/commentary submissions be set at Tuesday, January 13, 2009.

Any objections? Good. Didn't think so.

Apoth has kindly offered to take care of the number crunching again this year. Send your stuff to him via the main site.

We can use the same rating system as in the past.

Plot/Originality
Enjoyment
Writing Quality

Adherence to topic and degree of development can be factored into Plot. Rate on a scale of 1 to 10. If you want, you can star one of your ratings to be counted twice because you think it deserves particular emphasis. The stories under consideration are the following:

Exploitation Theater by EndMaster
The Sneeze by Usoki
Todestrieb by Vesnicie
Serial Rapist by xnull.

Thank you.

[apotheosis]

Aight niggas, as Ves said, send me your shit and crunch those numbers.

[End Master]

I hate to be a rules lawyers about this, but Xnull's story really shouldn't be eligible. It's only 11 rooms, and the minimum has always been twenty to qualify.

I could see an exception if it was 18 or 19 rooms and we only had two submissions, but as it stands, we got 3 stories which fit the criteria.

If we were dumping the minimum room requirement, their might've been more people submitting stuff. Apoth could've submitted his 5 room story for example, or DEP could've just jotted down a few rooms and submitted those in.

Anyway, I'll vote for Ves and Usoki's stories, the rest of you can do what you like.

[apotheosis]

I hate to be a rules lawyers about this, but Xnull's story really shouldn't be eligible. It's only 11 rooms, and the minimum has always been twenty to qualify.

I could see an exception if it was 18 or 19 rooms and we only had two submissions, but as it stands, we got 3 stories which fit the criteria.

If we were dumping the minimum room requirement, their might've been more people submitting stuff. Apoth could've submitted his 5 room story for example, or DEP could've just jotted down a few rooms and submitted those in.

Anyway, I'll vote for Ves and Usoki's stories, the rest of you can do what you like.

Endmaster, I have to call you out on this. DEP submitted a story with 2 or 3 rooms of actual content and 17 empty rooms last contest and no one minded.

If the story is not counted, then you will have to find someone else to do the ratings.

[End Master]

I assume you're talking about the children's story that DEP submitted. It counted on a technicality since he still had 20 rooms, if Xnull had did the same thing I'd say fine. Your mudkip story counted last year as well due to the 20 room technicality

I didn't say Xnull's story sucked, I just said it shouldn't be eligible since he doesn't have the 20 rooms.

But like I said you guys do whatever, I'm a slave to order, so I'm still just voting for Ves and Usoki's story. Everyone else can still vote for Xnull's story if they want to.

[apotheosis]

I suppose you have the right to abstain. I just think it is ridiculous.

[xnull]

Setting the benchmark, I've finished reading and rating every story submission.

Great job guys, and thanks.

[Vesnic]

This isn't my call, but I don't honestly remember there being a room minimum for the contest stories. I know they don't show up on the site without the requisite 20 pages, but then again none of the entries this year really "show up" due to the MA ratings. You have to go searching for all of them if you want to find them.

I think that a shorter story will be more likely to sabotage itself on the basis of not being developed enough. That is something that people always take into consideration when they are rating, so xnull is not exactly at any unfair advantage here. Why, then, shouldn't we count his story?

I agree that next time we should definitely decide ahead of time if we want to keep the 20-room minimum for the contest or not. However, given both the reasonable amount of effort and also the small entry pool, I still think xnull's story should stay in consideration.

[Dragavan]

I have not been paying much attention to this years contest, but I do remember that in the past the rules were pretty straight forward about there having to be at least one branch in the story (to keep it from being a linear story) and it had to have at least 20 rooms to count.

However you decide to handle this years is up to you guys... but I would kinda stand on the side of EndMaster this time around... Why have rules if you aren't going to follow them?

[apotheosis]

It's a stupid rule if it leads to people just creating several bogus rooms to fulfill the quota. I think word count is a better measure, and if 250 words is a page, then 5000 words would be a good minimum. Either way, I'll factor the votes as they are sent to me.

[Locke]

In principle, I have to side with End. I do remember something about a 20 room minimum from the past (though it's not important enough to me to search for); however, whether the rule was included in this year's contest is questionable. I agree with the limit - even above a proposed word count minimum (though I wouldn't mind one of those in addition) - because this site emphasizes the interactive feature above all else; the room minimum encourages development of different branches and enhances interactivity. For a true Infinite Story contest, the rule seems most appropriate.

I'll consider voting on Xnull's piece, particularly if this discussion swings in its favor, because the rule wasn't made clear this time around and there seems to be some confusion about it. However, I do believe in a 20-room non-linear minimum for IS contest pieces; I support its inclusion in future contests, clarified to eliminate the need for confusion and debate over the subject.

[Vesnic]

Still, don't you think that it's better that xnull has some rooms of substance rather than just stuffing up space to reach a quota? It is indeed a technicality, and kind of a useless one if it favors empty room creation over an interesting story.

I don't think anyone will disagree with reinforcing the 20-room minimum for next year.

And again, I reiterate: if a CYOA tends to need at least 20 rooms to have branching, then the fact that a story is under quota will mean its plot development is self-limiting, a fact likely to be reflected in the rating anyway.

[End Master]

The 20 room minimum thing has been about the only constant "rule" to these things since 2005. DEP was the one who came up with it since he first suggested these contest things.

Abusing the 20 room system was never really a common occurrence, the only two who ever did it were DEP with his children's story (Which lead to the "founder" bending his own rule) and Apoth's mudkip one. (Who is condemning it now)

Given that I'm now the only one who's actually participated in everyone of these things, I suppose I'm a little observant of this one and only rule.

There's also the idea, that due to Xnull being a good writer there's an exception being made, but what if it was drums or Megaman instead that wanted to submit some 9 room story. Do we let them do it as well? If we don't it looks pretty hypocritical, no matter how much we think they suck. If we do let them do it, then the challenge of the contest is pretty much lost.

Anyway, in the interest in not making this into some drama (because it's really not that deep in the scheme of things) I'm willing to just go ahead and vote for Xnull's story, but I'm docking points for it being less than 20 rooms (Like as if Xnull made 9 crap rooms to fulfill the requirement), and for next contest we're going to have to vote on which standards and requirements for these contests in the future.

[Vesnic]

Ok, fair enough. It should be easy enough to revamp/reiterate the rules later.

[xnull]

Sorry to be such a source of drama. I originally considered breaking each of my rooms into more rooms by making each room shorter (this was before the submission). This was for readability, not to make a quota.

I realized how much work it would be and being a busy guy I decided that I would not. I posted and also contacted Ves after I finished the last of my 11 rooms.

I was really surprised when EndMaster proclaimed he would not vote on my story, but I accept it. I really don't mind if someone has a deep-rooted reason not to vote on the story. I did consider at one point just adding those blank rooms to meet the requirement, but Apoth reminded me the modifications would be after the deadline and therefore moot.

After some discussion here, EndMaster now thinks he will vote on my story but will dock points for the missing rooms. That's cool too.

Whatever way you go, I'd like some feedback. I know I was rushed while writing most of it so some grammatical errors probably slipped in. My writing style is still evolving (mostly because I don't write very often) and I lack the critical eye I can turn to other writers' works at things I've written myself. In this piece, I attempted to get into a first-time rapist's mind. (Of course later I plan on trying to see what would make him want to do it again and what rationalizations he would have to make for himself.) It's hard to know how good a job I did at this without someone else telling me.

If you decide for whatever reason that you would rather not vote on Serial Rapist, please PM me with some form of feedback. Thanks!