strong vs. generic character

[Ryan_DuBois]

Crunchyfrog has some more words for us:

I must admit that from a reading perspective I like first person POV the least. Both first person and second person I find more difficult to write than third person, and am quickly beginning to realise that for each to work well there are subtle tricks to be learned.

For CYOA stories I understand why 2nd person + present tense seems more natural to use. The main feature of this style of story is the choices - and 2nd person allows a more immersive experience of the plot and environment - as if it were a game.

In 3rd person you're expecting your readers to consider making the choices based on the main character's personality.

The story I'm working on at the moment for the competition is in 2nd person. It's the first time I've attempted it and I'm discovering it is not as easy as it looks!

Being new to CYOA (reading and writing) I don't really know or understand what is most important in this yet - for example, if you read your way through and make your choices and get to the end - how important to you is it to then go and experience the rest of the rooms - and what would be the reasons for doing so?

Do you find that some paths are more popular with your readers than others?

[Usoki]

Well, if you stop reading when you reach the 'end' of the work, you're making several large assumptions. You assume there is only one path to this ending. You assume that this is the 'best' ending in the work. You assume that it is the only 'proper' ending in the work. And, you assume that the correct path is the only path worth reading.

Most works around here are not 'games'. There is great amusement to be found on paths that will eventually lead to a 'bad' end. And, what constitutes a 'bad' end, anyway? Not all bad endings result in the dismemberment of the protagonist. Some are depressing, some are melancholy, and some would be happy except for the great sacrifice required to reach that ending.

[End Master]

Crunchy: Second person is sort of funny to write when you're purposely trying to avoid giving the character a name. You end up getting around it by people referring to the character in other ways like: captain, son, my friend, pal, buddy, my love, asshole, etc.

Then when someone directly asks the character their name, you write something like this: "You tell the guard your name."

Usually if the character dies or get a bad ending in someone else's story, I'll read through some different paths. If the story is just entertaining in general, I'll try to go through all the paths.

Don't think I've ever gotten overwhelming comments expressing a favorite path within a story, I can only get a semi-idea based on the number of hits the rooms get. I have gotten a lot of comments loudly complaining about certain story paths though.

[donteatpoop]

I am enjoying that since some members can't log in, we are instead channeling them like ghosts.

[Ryan_DuBois]

I know; I feel like Crunchy has begun possessing me. Kinda like Whoopi Goldberg in that one movie...

[JJJ-thebanisher]

Crunchy: Second person is sort of funny to write when you're purposely trying to avoid giving the character a name. You end up getting around it by people referring to the character in other ways like: captain, son, my friend, pal, buddy, my love, asshole, etc.

Then when someone directly asks the character their name, you write something like this: "You tell the guard your name."

Usually if the character dies or get a bad ending in someone else's story, I'll read through some different paths. If the story is just entertaining in general, I'll try to go through all the paths.

Don't think I've ever gotten overwhelming comments expressing a favorite path within a story, I can only get a semi-idea based on the number of hits the rooms get. I have gotten a lot of comments loudly complaining about certain story paths though.

Extremely badass feature right there. I wish CYS had individual room hits.

[Ryan_DuBois]

I'm so glad I'm not a janitor.

[Sven Smokevich]

A question on 2nd person...

How much detail should you give your 2nd person character? In mine I have already established that the main character is a young adult male, and have even given him a name. But how much more detail should I provide, before I run into the danger of alienating the reader from the character they are role-playing?

Cheers,
CF

[End Master]

I'd say provide whatever information that you think is necessary for the story. If that means a fully fleshed out background for the protagonist then you should do it.

We tend to focus on the story aspect around here and if the reader can't get into the "role" of the protagonist, oh well. They can go read another story.

(Or more likely they'll leave a funny scolding comment like this)

Milianotus: I loved the beginning, I loved the main character, I loved the idea... but what the fuck?! I didn't want to be any kind of sick conquer of the city! More choices, please, just like there was in the Legend. Very good story, but not a good infinite-story, that's why it's only 6!

[Locke]

I wouldn't worry about it; just trust your instincts and, as End said, do what seems right for the story. Of course, if your character acquires some characteristics ( a pair of Nikes, a wicked scar) as a result of the plot, you get the best of both worlds. Within reason (a magician appears in front of your house and waves his arms. You black out for a sec. Suddenly, you are 5'7'' with a red 'fro, scraggly teeth and a mustache. You have been an English major for as long as you can remember, and your name is Jeffrey).

To me, the most important characteristics to flesh out are those that relate to other characters and interactions (your breath on a first date, the sausage you had earlier that gave you the bad breath, your strange lifelong affinity for onions, kraut and schnitzel). True, that detracts from "this character is me," but that's a forced and obvious gimmick anyway. Rather than opting for a character so generic, androgynous and underdescribed heshe could be anyone, flesh the poor thing out and just try to get the reader immersed in the story; instead of making the character conform to the reader, manipulate the reader with your story so that he/she identifies with the character (if you're good, you can get them feeling the pain of being mocked for having a red 'fro and scraggly teeth).

The characteristics are not nearly as important or interesting as the thought, action, and (especially) emotion that goes into creating them, or comes as a result of having them; if you're going to give a character an attribute, show the reader what it's like to have that attribute, and make them feel it.

The choices let you cheat and get away with greater immersion than you probably should; use those for all they're worth. If the choices are good, and interesting, PLAUSIBLE results follow naturally from them, the reader feels invested, because he/she is directly responsible for what happens to a character (not necessarily the protagonist) he/she has come to care for; there is a very real emotional connection present, and it doesn't matter at all that character and reader aren't one and the same.

Put another way, telling the story in the second person is just a gimmick to make including the choices - the real point and advantage of CYOA writing - a little more intimate/natural and less awkward, because "you" are choosing ("Carlos punches him in the face," as a choice, is so much less direct and effective than "Punch him in the face.") That's where you draw the reader in.

[Usoki]

Rather than opting for a character so generic, androgynous and underdescribed heshe could be anyone, flesh the poor thing out and just try to get the reader immersed in the story; instead of making the character conform to the reader, manipulate the reader with your story so that he/she identifies with the character.

I agree with Locke whole-heartedly. At some point, you're going to have to show that the 'you' of the protagonist is not the 'you' of the reader. If you try to awkwardly dance around situations which will provide details about the character, you'll wind up doing more harm than good. It's hard to like a character you know nothing about- even when that character is supposed to be yourself.

[Ryan_DuBois]

Too much freedom and you wind up with something like "Another Monday Morning" -- little blocks of writing seperated by lots of branches. Not that I really mind "Another Monday Morning".

[Sven Smokevich]

Thanks! This is good to know, and is helping a lot.

*carries on writing*