CYS Involvement in the IS contest.

[Vesnic]

So why have people been saying up to this point that these things are ultimately my call?

For instance:

Well, ultimately it's up to Ves, if she's feeling democratic she could create yet another poll on the subject, but she's already made it clear that she's not particularly fond of the idea of them using anything.

Mixed messages much?

[Locke]

End, you can't use this poll to determine whether the consensus is for allowing CYS-posted stories to be eligible. Three choices relate to tool use, and your last one to location/eligibility. Suppose all those who voted about the tool issue also feel entries posted to either site should be eligible?

I do disagree that allowing entries on CYS will defeat the established goal of increasing quality fiction here. There's potential for actually interesting new blood in our forum/site after all the voting's said and done, and unless you count the likes of Megaman and Drums, or users like Katica who post and leave, we've seen very little of that. Who can figure the potential mark even one new regular could make on IS? I don't think any of us feel inclined to post our contest entries solely on CYS or leave IS for them, so there's no potential loss to quality should they post their fiction there, only potential gain.

You lose most of that potential gain by mandating they post here; as 3J said, it's likely nobody would be interested in such, besides possibly himself, and he's a dual citizen anyway. If the consensus really is on an essentially IS-only contest, with work posted exclusively here, we should cease discussing the CYS angle and go back to the original plans.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

As Drag stated, the winner gets to choose the next topic for the contest. I'm not inclined to retroactively grant additional powers to the winner. It would be a bad precedence to set, as it undercuts the community environment we have developed over the years.

I will respect any decision made by vote, even if I personally feel it should be different. Also, if DEP exerts his contest creator authority, or Sev exerts his site admin authority I could respect that. Anyone else wishing for more authority would have to be voted into power or placed there by Sev.

[donteatpoop]

I voted they can't use their tools. I think Locke outlined it best, there is no potential loss by allowing them to enter without putting their stories on this site. None what so ever. Only potential gain.

If we are going to force them to post on here, we should never have offered them the opportunity to join.

[Usoki]

Why did we offer the opportunity? We were laughing at their feud, and then Mega decided this was a bad thing, and then we just wanted Mega to switch over to CYS. End said he wasn't interested in starting a contest...so somehow we footed that bill? And I just sorta assumed Ves had power over it, but like Drag points out she really only has control over the theme... I'm with DEP on this one, but I still am unsure why we're doing this in the first place.

I'm so confused.

...Seriously. Why in the hell are we doing this? If they want in our contest, they can join our site. If they don't want to join the site, then they can't join the contest. Community priviledges. It's not like we're demanding an entrance fee.

[xnull]

*Repeats what Usoki just said like I came up with it myself.*

[End Master]

Well if we're going with the whole community thing, it's pretty clear the votes are swaying with the last choice and given that it's been a current source of drama here, the best thing to do would be to just let this stand.

So obviously there isn't going to be an IS-CYS contest thing. If their members want to participate in our contest, well they can join the site and post the story here. Not sure how likely that's going to happen, but anything's possible.

In any case the matter seems settled.

[Usoki]

I should take random naps more often. Things seem to get decided when I'm gone. XD

Infinite Story, with an invite to CYS to join our site for our contest if that's what they'd like to do. I also doubt much of CYS will be doing that...but it's a simple solution to something so messy- the sites really do produce entirely different products, and so maybe they're not meant to share one contest. If CYS can't write anything without their (admittedly fun, if not useful) coding tricks, I'm not sure that incompatibility will change anytime soon.

Damn shame what's happening over on their site, but that doesn't mean we need to shoulder a part of their battleground for no reason whatsoever. If anything, maybe hating "us elitist ISers" will give them common ground. XD

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

It is very nice when things are settled.

[Locke]

If that is really the majority opinion, I can't understand it. "Why are we doing this?" I should ask what reason there is for not doing it. I honestly can't see any way this could be detrimental to our community. We add a little spice to the contest by bringing in a few more players and challenging our rivals; we generate some potential interest in our site. There really isn't a downside.

So we're arguing over whether or not CYS should be permitted to use its advanced tools, and because of that, a situation that was working itself out anyway, we call the whole thing off?

I'd still like to salvage this, because I think it's a worthwhile endeavor; I think that if it accomplishes nothing else, it's a fun element to change up the contest a little and provide some incentive for good work on both sides, something it will likely be pleasant to look back on, even if we never do it again. We've talked about this sort of thing before, and we ought to try it at least this once.

I'm not sure where everyone falls on the tool issue or the site issue because the poll is constructed in such a way that it must be disregarded as inaccurate. You who feel the contest is straying too far from traditional IS bounds and are against the tools favor cancelling the contest entirely rather than giving in, though, and I don't care much about it either way, so I'll throw my weight behind you rather than lose this opportunity. We'll deny the advanced CYS tools, leaving only those basic tools with clear IS parallels, so that we are on a completely level playing field there.

I have to say that entries must be permitted on CYS, though, because denying them that is tantamount to cancelling the joint contest anyway. I must emphasize that we lose nothing by allowing them to enter on their own site.

Since everyone seems so heated about this for some reason, End, I won't argue your presumptions in deciding to call the discussion here before its conclusion and posting on CYS that the joint contest was probably off. That really bothers me, but the issue is bigger than that and more important to me personally, so it's water under the bridge. I would rather see the joint contest called off than have everyone here at each other's throats, but I can't see why this amount of heat is necessary. There are only benefits and no liabilities to be considered; let's come to an agreement - no tools for CYSers, contest eligibility on either site - and preserve an easy tournament solution that is frankly worth our time and consideration.

[donteatpoop]

Locke, I entered one of their contests on CYS once. Guess which site I had to put it on? Go on, guess...

[End Master]

Hardly matters really at this point, since the theme has been changed and I doubt if they'll want to do that one. Most of them that showed interest in the collaboration preferred the myth idea and the "Infinite Story" theme really only works best here in name.

Your best bet would be to organize a second separate contest like Drag suggested though I doubt if anyone here's going to be motivated to do two contests, let alone one just to compete with CYS people.

[Locke]

I'm sorry. I didn't know the theme was changed; that's fairly sudden. It is unbelievably frustrating to have things working out to an optimistic and beneficial conclusion, only to have the rug pulled out at the last instant for apparently no reason. Thanks, everyone, for selling out the contest. I actually wanted to enter this one, you know? What was wrong with Myths and a joint contest? What reasoning could be compelling enough to change every aspect of the tournament today when everything was perfectly fine yesterday? I really think you're throwing away something good here. If you're going to stick with this out-of-the-blue decision for no reason that I can see other than getting a little heated over some trivialities, I can't stop you. Enjoy your Infinite Story.

[Usoki]

It is fairly sudden. It's extremely sudden. It's very immediate, rash, and drastic in many ways. But it was Ves's call to make. Do you expect anything less from her? You seem to have put a large value into the poll- frankly, it meant jack shit, as we pointed out several times during that discussion. It was Ves making an attempt to figure out where the public opinion lay. No one voted for the Maze theme- it would not have gone over well if she'd picked that as the official theme. Five votes or no, Myth was never official. Very likely, but never actually official.

Since when was there an optimistic and beneficial conclusion? Ever since it was suggested that CYS could join the contest- which they could have done in any of the past contests simply by joining the site, as there is no entry requirement, we have done nothing but argue about how such a system is possible. How are they supposed to give Apoth their votes if they don't have an account on this site? Let alone the variable/tool conundrum which we obviously haven't solved. In fact, the only thing 100% sure in this contest was the theme poll, which- as I mentioned earlier- has no commanding say.

In fact, considering we don't even really have a deadline yet, there is still a lot up in the air about the contest. Please explain to me how we have sold out a contest that has yet to be finalized. There isn't anything wrong with a myth theme, and there's nothing wrong with having a joint contest. But, as it appears now, that is not what we will be doing. That does not mean the IS theme is far superior to a joint-myth theme. It just means that the joint-myth theme has been discarded for a different selection. When I choose McNuggets at McDonalds, I am not declaring all hamburgers to be vile patties of carrion- I'd just rather not have a hamburger at the moment.

The only one stopping you from entering this contest is yourself. The aspects of the contest you were hoping for lost. It's a damn shame, but democracy works like that sometimes. You can either bitch about it, or you can shrug, do what you can, and then wait for the next contest to be that much better.

[JJJ-thebanisher]

DEP, did we ever suggest a joint contest to you? No.. we didn't. It was a CYS contest only and you decided to join, fair enough, but when the matter of a "joint IS/CYS" contest comes up, it's an entirely different situation. That being said, I accept your community decision to exclude the chooseyourstory.com website (note: not it's members) and wish you all a good luck with your contest. I think it probably could have been handled better, but hey, I'm definitely not one to talk.

*Points to state of affairs at own website.

Edit: Thanks to Locke and End for the support in the matter, hopefully you find a way to enter, Locke, and good luck End