To apoth, concerning Salvia

[ChubbyTeletubby]

It's legal.

I dissed you for mentioning it.

Boy, was I wrong. Sorry.

I've known about salvia for over a decade. Didn't really care to investigate it that whole time. My reasoning being that if it was legal it must not be anything to write home about.

I tried it for the first time yesterday with some army acquaintances (I have a lot of those). One didn't even know how to light a bong, and of course he said he got no reaction. Indeed, many people say they have no reaction. That's because they are morons and can't figure out how to smoke drugs. Fucking morons. Gosh.

What are they teaching these kids nowadays!?!?!

He was an infantryman, of course. Not the brightest bulb, but we still love em, God dammit. The other guy was actually pretty damn level headed for an infantryman. We had a long talk about salvia...and Fable. He insisted I try it (salvia) before judging it. I tried it (via my marijuana bong).

And for about ten minutes I was lost in another dimension. Everything became pixelated, and every pixel was everything and everything was every pixel. Confusing? Ya. I've done just about every drug they have a name for and Salvia is...

Salvia. Class of its own. Only comparable to mushrooms or peyote or lsd or mescaline. Yet unlike all of the said substances it only lasts for ten or twenty minutes.

I was being dragged inexorably down into an endless pit. It was terrifying yet...fucking amazing. At one point the pixels became hands. Everything became hands. Hard to explain. The hands were dragging me down deeper. Deeper and deeper.

I was locked in this unending...whatever you call it. It seemed like hours. Everything just kept getting deeper. While your average hallucingeon (taking into account the comedown, which is in my opinion more enjoyable in some ways to the peak) is twelve hours, salvia only lasts about 20 minutes. And it's INTENSE. It's like taking a 12 hour mushroom high and condesning it into a 10 minute package.

I know it sounds goofy. But it really was profound. Kinda like a dream. You forget all the important parts the moment you wake up, but you KNOW they were important. The bits and pieces I did take away from it were...terrifying. Truly terrifying. I'm a sick puppy, tho.

I wandered around for about ten minutes in a real oblivion, trying to escape this unstoppable abyss from swallowing me forever. Is this what death is like? I tipped over some furniture, needless to say. Wandered outside. If there is a Hell, that must have been it. It wasn't BAD...but it wasn't GOOD. I mean, it WAS bad. Very bad. But also fun and exhilerating. Not for the faint of heart. It was certainly fascinating and unlike anything I've ever experienced. Which is why I'll probably do it again, a little bit wiser and less condescending the next time around. I fucking PACKED my bong when I loaded the salvia (it looks like oregeno). I have lungs of steel and can out bong-rip anyone I know...when it comes to good ol fashioned illegal weed. I have ten years of experience. Next time I might take it easy when it comes to the hardcore, legal substances, however.

Reminds me of this time in High School when a friend told me not to eat the whole strip of acid.

Also, back to friendly user warnings, DON'T walk around after you take that one hit. Easier said than done. I could have got into some real shit because I wasn't actually in THIS place. I could have hurt myself. No one words meant anything. People weren't even there. I was somewhere else, a million layers deep. NOT something to do while driving. Have a friend with you. A 'sober' friend.

Also, do you know how to hit a bong? That is the best method. One hit, that's all. One hit. Then brace yourself. I forget sometimes that some people haven't done every God damn drug on the face of the Earth and aren't familiar with bongs. A bong is the most effective device when smoking 'herby' substances. Way cleaner hit, too. Remember, tho, there IS a carb. Use it. The water actually DOES filter some carcinogens. Trust me. If you do decide to try this crazy stuff, go buy you a $10 bong from your local head shop. Fuck a pipe. Salvia tastes bad, unlike weed, so the water helps. Also, they sell little vials of flavoring at your friendly local Salvia dealer. Buy one. Especially if you aren't a smoker. Buy one.

Take my advice. It's actually pretty good sometimes.

Again, salvia isn't a feel good drug. It's an experience. Neither good nor bad. Not sure of long term consequences. Pretty certain it isn't addictive nor does it cause brain damage with prolonged use. This is coming from shit I read ten years ago. You might want to do your own research (as I'm sure you have). Like any drug, you would obviously build up immunity. Done once every few years I think it's a worthwhile venture.

On a scale of 1-10, I give it a ten. It's legal. I know you are smart enough to find a vendor in your area, apoth. So I wont go into that. It's there, though. And, once again (God only knows why), it's legal. The only similar experience I had was for about ten seconds on mushrooms one time. Ten of the longest seconds of my life. I was catapulted to the center of the universe. I lost all ego and everything simply was. Amazing. I guess you'd call it a Zen moment on crack.

ANYWAY....back to the salvia...

Salvia, like any mind altering substance, affects different people in different ways. Myself and my roommate, had almost the same exact experience. Pixelated hands and endless abysses. Yet some people don't react to it whatsoever. Strange. If you are a curious bugger, Apoth, and want to know what this whole halluciongen thing is....salvia is your perfect starter kit. If you can handle salvia, you can handle mushrooms.

I underestimated this substance. I am deeply humbled. One of the craziest ten minutes I've ever experienced. And I've had some crazy ten minutes.

It's not an "addictive" drug. It's not even very pleasant. It's just profoundly strange and interesting.

I think you'd enjoy it, in the true sense of the word enjoy. it's an adventure. Adventures aren't always fun. In fact the bad parts are what usually make adventures so interesting. If you do decide to try it, please tell me how your experience went.

Peace out

[apotheosis]

My friend and I bought some, but we are really cheap and don't feel like buying a bong so we have been holding off on doing it.

What strength was the stuff you took? The stuff we have that we have been holding off on using is 20x concentration.

Also, thanks for the review. This may light a fire under my ass and get me to finally try it.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

I think it was 50? Not sure. I'll ask the guy next time I see him.

Dude, just buy a little cheapy bong. Don't you have any stoner friends? Aren't you in college? You really are a cheap, impoverished bastard, aren't you? Between the two of you, you can't spare $5 each? Jesus christ, go beg for change or something.

Let me just say again that it was NOT for the faint of heart. Wow. Try it, man. Load the bong tightly though and hit it like a champ. I tried taking another hit after my first CRAZY one, and the effects were almost nonexistent. The first hit is the one that counts. While the taste is awful, there's actually less tar than marijuana, so you should be able to handle it.

Do you smoke? I assume not. It seemed like it had less tar than marijuana. Marijuana is thick flowering buds, and this stuff seemed to be like crushed leaves or something. I am so ignorant on this shit right now. If you don't smoke weed you'll probably end up coughing, just try to get the best lungful before you cough.

I'm too lazy and tired right now to do any research on salvia, but it is definitely something to write home about. Once again, be careful. Try not to walk around. I ended up stumbling around like a blind moron, which is. basically what I was.

I ended up in the fucking parking lot. I really want to hear about your reaction to it.

Also, I wish someone would have recorded my reaction! But I'm sure you cheap bastards can't afford a camera.

EDIT: Figured I'd post this wiki article. Salvia is part of the mint family. Interesting. As I thought, like most hallucinogens (although actually its in a category of its own), it has no negative affects on the brain and is totally non-adictive. I don't understand why people freak out on this stuff. There are no reports of salvia being a 'menace on society'. A lot of people don't even react to it. It's completely natural, people have been using it for years, and it actually DOES leave you with an improved mood and a slightly different outlook on things. I think anyone of sound mind should try salvia and mushrooms at least once BEFORE they judge those who use them. Eating a bag of potato chips has more negative physical side effects. Life is short. Live a little. Salvia is prevalent and mostly legal, and it's a hardcore dissocociative/hallicinogen. This is why marijuana just needs to be regulated and legalized. Christ, sometimes I REALLY wonder about our lawmakers and the people who vote them in. I hate soccer moms.

Mostly I hate the media though. God. I don't even watch the news anymore. 75% of is just pure shit. It's all about advertising revenue and hype.

Anyway, I'm glad all of my ignorant speculation was dead-on. I pretty much hit the nail on the head with everything I wrote. Like I said, I DID research salvia years ago in my experimental phase in high school and was like 99.9% certain it was a relatively safe experience. Say what you want about me, but I did research on every substance I've ever put into my body. Some people react more strongly to these types of drugs. I think I'm one of them. I hope you come out of the experience...intrigued.

And pay no attention to the haters. I'm glad you're trying salvia and mushrooms rather than stupid shit like cocaine and meth and pills. Hallucinogens aren't going to answer anything for you. They will maker you question things more, however.

Salvia divinorum (Diviner’s Sage,[2] ska María Pastora,[3] Sage of the Seers,[4] or colloquially by its genus name Salvia) is a psychoactive herb which can induce strong dissociative effects. It is a herbaceous perennial in the Lamiaceae (mint) family. The specific name, Salvia divinorum, was given because of its traditional use in divination and healing[5]—it literally translates to "diviner's sage" or "seer's sage".[6][nb 1]

Salvia divinorum has a long and continuing tradition of religious use as an entheogen by indigenous Mazatec shamans, who use it to facilitate visionary states of consciousness during spiritual healing sessions.[1] The plant is found in isolated, shaded, and moist habitat in the mountain cloud forest in Oaxaca, Mexico. It grows to well over a meter in height. It has hollow square stems, large green leaves, and occasional white flowers with purple bracts. Botanists have not determined whether it is a cultigen or a hybrid.[7][8]

Its primary psychoactive constituent is a diterpenoid known as salvinorin A,[9][10] which is a potent κ-opioid receptor agonist. Salvinorin A is unique in that it is the only naturally occurring substance known to induce a visionary state this way. Salvia divinorum can be chewed, smoked, or taken as a tincture to produce intense and profound alternative states of consciousness, and, occasionally, unpredictable behaviors that range from laughter to unintelligible speech. The duration of effects is much briefer than those of other, more well-known psychoactive compounds, typically lasting minutes only. The most commonly reported after-effects include an improved mood and sensations of insight, calmness, and connection with nature—though rarely it may also cause dysphoria (unpleasant or uncomfortable mood).[11] Salvia divinorum is not generally understood to be toxic or addictive, and as a κ-opioid agonist, it may have potential as an analgesic and as a therapeutic tool for treating drug addictions. While not currently regulated by USA federal drug laws, several states have passed laws criminalizing the substance and the DEA has listed Salvia as a "drug of concern".[12]

EDIT 2: the wiki article suggests using a water pipe as well.

[TheKoolAidGuy]

I've done salvia a few times. Honestly, I'm not a huge fan. Last time around things fucked up supremely, and I found myself standing in a hallway, screaming at my friend, filled with more anger, rage and frustration than I've ever encountered in my life.

But hey, I know why it went wrong. And it was preventable. I was just a bit dumb (and already pretty high on other things). I'm pretty sure I'll give it another shot in the future, on my own, in my own home.

On a slightly related note, the other night me and a few friends each took around 500mg of mescaline (can't be sure of the exact measurements, as it was from ground-down peruvian torch cactus shavings), something none of us had tried before.

Jeeeeeeesus fuck.

Because there were quite a few of us, and we were doing a lot of talking, we didn't quite harness the full potential of the trip. I did make sure to spend plenty of time on my own though, particularly outside where I could just watch the clouds forming beautiful kaleidoscopic shapes with impossible symmetry, spinning and swirling miles above me.

Honestly, it makes the horrible, vile bitterness of the cactus, and the highly-probable voilent vomiting all worth it.


Oh, and PS: I disagree with you Chubby on one point - if you can get ahold of decent pills, they're definitely a good idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've said so yourself in the past. The whole natural > chemical argument is a load of shite anyway, it doesn't make any sense.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Oh, and PS: I disagree with you Chubby on one point - if you can get ahold of decent pills, they're definitely a good idea. In fact, I'm pretty sure you've said so yourself in the past. The whole natural > chemical argument is a load of shite anyway, it doesn't make any sense.

First, getting to your earlier point; yes, Salvia should be done as a stand alone "drug".

And it's not really "enjoyable", in the traditional sense of the word. I know you know that. And that's not why I try this stuff. I am actually looking to gain something from the experience. Salvia was a very rare sort of out of body trip, and one of the most intense of such experiences I've ever had. It's more of like a way to encourage "outside of the box" thinking. Doesn't really solve any problems, but it does make you ponder afresh many "mundane" details of this savage existence called life.

Pills are addictive in many cases, though. And...other stuff. Hallucinogens aren't. I was only arguing in favor of natural hallucinogens as a sort of mind refresher. In a category of their own. You can overdose on any given household or prescription pill. And stuff. You would die of stomach hemorrhaging before you'd overdose on mushrooms or salvia or what have you. And stuff.

They've also been tried and tested for hundreds and even thousands of years. And stuff.

I was free basing oxycontin two days ago, so ya, I do pop pills like a pill popping pill popper. They call me Merry Poppins. It's a bad thing. I gain nothing but increased brain addiction.

I don't recommend them. They are ultimately destructive. In many cases, not always. I fucking LOVE ectacy (MDMA), but it it can destroy your brain after prolonged use. I love pain killers. They are highly addictive. See where I'm going?

Anyway...you got ahold of mescaline in butt-fuck Scotland? NICE! I've never tried it or peyote. My last mushroom trip was in May and I literally ran barefoot through the mountain woods. It was awesome. I felt like Adam on the first day of creation. I watched dawn awaken the forest. I saw little alpine flowers blooming before my eyes. I saw the sky painted by the morning sun. I saw a fucking owl. Those are fucking RARE nowadays.

Mushrooms are my favorite, by far. They are more user friendly than salvia or peyote or what have. Easier to eat. Gentler trip. But fucking AWESOME visuals. Also, unlike LSD (at least for me), you seem to connect with the earth. You become in tune with the cycles of nature.

Watching dawn awaken the Colorado wilderness on mushrooms was fucking amazing. It renewed my faith in a higher meaning. A more meaningful existence.

Salvia, however, was like being catapulted into a fucking dimensional nexus. Like I said, when I hit a bong, I hit a bong. I loaded half of the container into that one hit. WOW.

I was completely taken off guard. My reaction was the most profound of all those that did it. It was absolutely unique. Really unlike mushrooms or LSD.

[apotheosis]

Regarding the bong thing, the cheapest one for sale in my town is about 36 bucks. I could make one myself but I'm really not handy like that.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Your town sucks donkey balls.

Go to a locally owned record store one town over and they will know where you can get one for $10.

Or maybe not. Anyway, I was just giving you a hard time. Making a bong isn't that hard, either. I made a bong out of a telescope once.

Waste of a good telescope.

I'm sure you'll figure out.

[TheKoolAidGuy]

Plastic bottle, hole in the bottom, gauze/foil on the top. Fill it with water, light your stuff while the water flows out the hole; pulls in the smoke by creating a vacuum. Remove your mouthpiece/foil, breathe it in. Waterfall bong, done. 10 minutes work, essentially free materials.

Chubby: I made the mistake of using the word "pills" when all I really meant was MDMA. I don't find it in any way addictive, and - without wanting to sound like a junky - it has honestly changed the lives of me and my close friends for the better. But it's only worth it if you know what you're taking is decent stuff. We recently bought a testing kit for exactly that purpose.

And yeah, got the mescaline on the internet. If you fancy a decent trip one of these days I would definitely recommend it, and the cactus shavings themselves are totally legal to purchase. A lot of it isn't that easy (the nausea is particularly tough to deal with, and there were times when my body just felt incredibly uncomfortable for no reason), but overall it's totally worth it.

Hooray for induced temporary insanity.

[Locke]

Any cheap little pipe will do. You should use a torch lighter for salvia, though, and do it before the rest of the states get around to banning it.

EDIT: Anyone else watching the Tour de France?

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Um, no. Who watches the tour de france?

ANYWAY...

Fuck the flavoring. Smoked another bowl of 40x. Tasted fine without it. My bad. Preferable method is still the bong.

This time she didn't trick me. Wasn't as profound. Salvia revealed herself as a woman, as she seemed to do last time. This time I just laughed.

She almost got me. But not quite. I ended up feeling quite refreshed afterward. Interesting. Probably won't try this stuff again for another year.

Not really something to do more than once or twice a year, in my opinion.

I have some smart young friends who are now intrigued by salvia. These guys have never even smoked weed. One has a scholarship to MIT. Once presented with the evidence, they seemed open to the experience. As most curious people are.

Should be interesting watching their reaction. I'll be sure to post it.

[Locke]

Get it on video, Chubby. For science.

[apotheosis]

I tried it, and it didn't work. Pot doesn't' work on me either. Maybe I'm immune to drugs.

[End Master]

Well you could always try regular household inhalants, but I don't even think Chubby would recommend that. Tends to kill brain cells even faster than regular drugs.

EDIT:Hey, Chubby, here's a drug question.

I heard the toad licking makes for an amusing story, but is mostly bullshit and just outright stupidly dangerous when put into real practice.

But I also heard that if you get it to secrete its venom, let that evaporate to a crystal and then put that into a pipe and smoke it, you'll get a greater effect than if you took a hit of LSD. (quicker too).

Any truth to that or just someone spouting stories again?