Top Writers Section

[Vesnic]

Since our rating system on the main site is for all intents and purposes broken, with people now able to rate their own stories and no system in place to weed out abusive ratings both in the positive and negative directions, may I suggest that we sidestep this issue entirely by adding a new heading under the "Read" bar that says "Top Writers". This could lead to a list of hot-linked author names and would take visitors to individual author pages where they could then sift through the different stories on offer by a particular writer. Rather than selecting specific stories in a "best of IS" mode, this way we'll be able to reward individuals for consistently good work and make the job a lot easier for newcomers to find out who the serious people are and where their work can be found.

[donteatpoop]

Hmmmm... I'm not quite sure I agree with this idea. I like the basic concept, but I fear hurt feelings over not being considered a "top writer" could drive some people away.

As a tweaked idea to your concept, what about a "recommended reading" section? How would that work though? How many stories would be a part of it? This is obvisouly a much better idea since I came up with it.

[End Master]

A recommended reading selection would have the same effect. People would be getting butthurt over not having their stories on it or perhaps getting pissed that someone doesn't deserve to be on there (Same with top writers).

Really the ability to rate your own story was part of the site when I first got here, so it doesn't really bother me if someone wants to cheat the system (or in some cases get a bunch of their friends to cheat the system). Usually if someone is doing it, someone else will usually rate them down or up anyway and if you REALLY feel like there is an injustice being made, well you know what we did with those Facepunch people.

[Locke]

The tournament section on the main site is partly what you're talking about. I like the idea of a "recommended reading" section, but it would obviously subvert the main site further in favor of the forums, and I don't see the need for that.

[Vesnic]

Ok...

It's just that we've been over and over the idea of a recommended stories page but that's always ended up in a stalemate. I'm not talking about a super-exclusive list. I'm really referring more to forum regulars and then a few people who have written some great stuff but don't pop in here much. If that would make things "forum-centric", then that's really just incidental. And even if it did, so what? Maybe it'd help to bring more people over here and liven things up a bit.

I don't see how it could hurt. There's a lot of crap currently in the "top rated" section and a lot of it's been there for a long time, so rather than having to rate the bad stories down and face revenge ratings-bombs, I just thought we could add a new section featuring some of the better writers. Doing it that way is actually a good deal more egalitarian than selecting specific stories.

[donteatpoop]

I guess that doens't sound like too bad of an idea now that you've explained the logic behind the suggestion more.

I iffily vote in favor.

[End Master]

Okay let's just call this out right now.

On the top rated 20 list of the first page, the stories you're probably referring to are:

Coitus Machina (DEP)
Jedi or Sith (Zac)
The Girl With A Cowboy Hat (Carol)

Now out of those, the only one that is REALLY abusing the system is Carol, because she and her little friends mentioned in the Facepunch2 thread have been rating all their stories high and circle jerking each other. Mizal waged her own little battle with them and has gotten slammed by them, it's going to happen sometimes. Now we could as a community do what we did to Facepunch crew and mass rate their stories low which would at least show some solidarity, or we could just let Mizal or whoever else twist by themselves. Whatever, just let me know if we're going into battle so I can make up some suitable insults for the offenders.

Now for Zac, his is abusive, but he at least didn't rate his own story, it was just one of his buddies that did and he was probably rating himself. However, that's sort of a common thing on the collaborative stuff, you can find that in several stories on here, like CRACK ATTACK for example. If you believe his story should be lower then I think you should rated down as such. I doubt if Zac is going to go on a revenge spree.

Finally we have DEP and as indicated in the amusing little conversation in his comments section, you're not too happy with him rating his own stories. He's gotten that before. I'd hate to do a double standard here and say, well it's DEP and he can back up his shit, but it is sort of the case here. Now it probably isn't the case for THIS particular story since he himself said it wasn't his best writing, so if you rated it down, I'm fairly certain DEP isn't going to go on a revenge rating spree either. He might call you an asshole in his comments section, but that's about it.

As for the rest of the stories, I'm fairly confident that the rest belong in the top 20 section, true maybe some other stories might be more deserving, but you see stories go up and down on here, that's just the nature of the beast. The system really isn't "broken" to the point where we got a ton of crap in the top rated section. We don't even have crap stories in the NEXT top 20 selection either.

However all that being said, if we are going to insist on changing everything around and I'm not really in favor of doing so, I'd go more for the "top writer" list rather than the recommended stories, mainly because it's a lot simpler.

[Vesnic]

I hardly think that adding a new sub-heading counts as "changing everything around".

The whole point of my suggestion was to eliminate the need to do all those acrobatics with the ratings. Very recently, we had a bunch of shit stories by that little Shit Story Consortium all in the highest rankings, and then they slammed Mizal when she took them down a few pegs, which to my way of thinking is a perfect argument for why we need another safeguard in place. Poop's silly self-rating lark aside, in the past there have been and in the future there will be, lots of incidents like this that muddy the waters and have no clear and consistent solution. And then there are all those writers who wrote some really excellent material that has now been all but forgotten because it was pushed down in the ratings for random and usually unfair reasons.

So, I reiterate, why bother with all that sticky goo when we could opt for a new category that we have some control over, such as "Top Writers"? I think this would be a nice addition, and complementary to the new IWT section, since not everyone participates in the contests. It just seems fair to me, not to mention pretty easy to implement. This is really more about letting the good stories rise to the surface than punishing the bad ones. It would be nice to see more hits on certain people's work, and I'm sure the authors themselves would appreciate a bit more exposure.

People's early experiences on IS often determine how they perceive the site and whether they feel motivated to contribute their own material. I've read several comments along the lines of, "I was just about to leave when I was lucky enough to stumble upon Good Writer's story, and that's why I stayed." The more front-and-center the better stories are, the greater chance we have of attracting quality members and keeping them here. Sev has been trying to professionalize the site with his updates, so this would seem another good way to spruce things up a bit.

[donteatpoop]

A weighted rating system, as suggested in the past; would make all of this a non-issue. Just saying.

Users who participate more and whose ratings are closer to the average ratings of stories, would have more weight than those who just joined to go on a low-rating-bender.

[End Master]

Yeah, I've always been against that weighted rating idea as well. It allows a whole "vet" elitism to basically crush or raise a story with just one vote, regardless of other votes. Didn't like it at Worth, don't want it here either. I prefer that all votes are equal for good or ill and like I said, the system isn't really "broken" or abused enough to change it.

As for the top writers section, it may appear egalitarian, but it's just a circle jerk on a higher scale. Because really, we're going to be picking who's good enough to be in "the club" and let's face it, most of us on the forums are going to qualify for this "club". And there's still most likely going to be debate on the people who aren't on the forums as to if they're "good enough" or not. Yeah, not really fond of that idea either. Besides we've got a "club" already, it's called the forums, we don't need another one.

I'd say if you really have a problem with the ratings, take matters into your own hand directly by voting yourself or ask Sev to take away the ability to rate yourself, that would solve the main problem that seems to be the basic complaint here.

[Vesnic]

End, since I'm not actually suggesting any functional change to the current rating system, it seems a bit odd to me that you're coming out so stridently against a potentially constructive idea to make some worthy writers a bit more visible on the main site.

You might think the system is just fine the way it is, but not everyone agrees with you. I posted here with the hope that Sev would see this and consider it.

The list doesn't have to be called "Top Writers". It could just as easily be "Recommended Authors" or something along those lines if the elitism factor really bothers people a lot. I happen to think there is a real difference between elitism and meritocracy and I see no problem in honoring writers who have put forth good effort.

No one is trying to topple you from your position as King of the Forum Hill. Having what you call a "club" (and it's really not a club) on the main site will in no way detract from the forums. In fact I'll repeat my former statement that such an addition could potentially increase traffic here, where people have been complaining that things have gotten rather dull of late.

I would really appreciate it if you didn't belittle my ideas and twist everything I suggest into just another form of cliquishness or elitism when the ideas are as yet untested, and you haven't indicated that these ideas are actually offensive to you in any way.

I know I'm not alone in wanting this site to continue developing and growing and improving. I want people to see that there is a lot more depth to IS than they might otherwise discover with a casual once-over. The easier and more accessible we make the introductory process, the more likely people are to be intrigued by what they see, and, hopefully, to stick around and enrich this community.

[End Master]

I wasn't accusing anyone of trying to "topple" me from some hill (I'm not the "leader" of any of you anyway and if I am it's news to me) and I'm well aware most people don't agree with me on this, but I'm giving my opinion on the matter because well this is a forum and that's what we do here. Besides, this isn't the first time suggestions on the rating systems have come up, they've come up before you were here, and I was vocal about not needing to change them back then too.

I wasn't belittling your idea either, I'm disagreeing with it just like I disagreed with DEP's idea. What's the big deal?

And really I don't know where this "dull" forum thing is coming from. Because if the forums have never been that lively and if anything the forums have been a lot busier than they have been in a long time.

Obviously if Sev wants to change stuff around then it'll get changed around and I'll have to deal with it, but I don't see why I can't give my opinion on the matter without being accused of personally attacking someone.

[donteatpoop]

Hey I checked the permissions list on the site and it looks like neither one of you are entitled to have opinions. So only my suggestion counts and nothing either one of you said does.

[End Master]

Lol.

Okay I'm defusing this because I don't want a repeat of what happened in IWT6 and I'm trying to work on my people skills. (Well not really, but I'm making an exception right now)

I'm just going to say I'm not in love with the idea, but I still like Ves and if it gets implemented then like I said I'll go along with it.

[severenz]

Guys, if you can come up with a new rating algorithm I'll look it over.

Another option would be for me to sell advertising space to the writers.

I suppose maybe this is my list of recommended writers:
http://www.infinite-story.com/members/donors.php