IWT8- The Results!

[dreamshell]

Writing up characters for the contest sounds fun in theory, but it'd be tricky to find that sweet spot between "too broad" and "too narrow" and the whole creation process could get very involved and possibly frighten people off with the thought of having to do so much work even before the contest begins. Still, I'd be willing to give it a shot, it just seems like there'll be a poor or awkward outcome.

I do, however, like the "Game Chef" idea, Usoki, though it's basically what was just done in the Sci-Fi contest, unless I'm missing something.

I liked DEP's "setting or time period"-centric idea; it's specific but still leaves plenty of room as far as genre and tone. I also like one End Master suggested, perhaps in jest, where the story must have another story within it, though that's probably not enough to base an entire contest around...

Or is it??? =P It could actually be pretty fun and meta to have a contest call for stories about or featuring other stories. Like One Thousand and One Nights with Sheherazade or something.

Also somewhat inspired by his ideas, what about one featuring an Unreliable Narrator (or, more appropriately, POV)? Admittedly, I don't know how this would be done in such a way that we're the ones being misled and not just writing pathological liars. It could possible combine somehow with my idea above, but dunno.

[Usoki]

I'm not a big fan of a time period theme, because I'm caught between not wanting to be anachronistic, and not wanting to bother to research the time period. Several of End's suggestions were nifty, but I think we're moving away from that sort of grab bag.

Considering the ideas that I'm leaning toward, and the ideas that a few of you have mentioned, that just makes me lean even closer to the character grab bag. As long as there is enough character variety, I really don't think it will be too much of an issue- especially if you're only choosing 3 out of 15+ characters. I can design several to be custom tailored for specific genres or plotlines, as well as making a stock of background-ish characters. And that's before I open the floor to other people's submissions, where people are making characters to fit their story. Which... is probably why I'll end up limiting everyone else to one character apiece, unless there is severe outcry and/or a really good idea.

Anyway, by this point, I'm pretty much set in what I'm doing, so be on the lookout soon for the official IWT 9 thread. Unless I decide to torment Ves by holding off on that thread for two weeks, while having sent out everyone but her a pm about it in the meantime. If this happens, everybody but Ves should be on the lookout soon for an official IWT 9 message.

[dreamshell]

Considering the ideas that I'm leaning toward, and the ideas that a few of you have mentioned, that just makes me lean even closer to the character grab bag. As long as there is enough character variety, I really don't think it will be too much of an issue- especially if you're only choosing 3 out of 15+ characters. I can design several to be custom tailored for specific genres or plotlines, as well as making a stock of background-ish characters. And that's before I open the floor to other people's submissions, where people are making characters to fit their story. Which... is probably why I'll end up limiting everyone else to one character apiece, unless there is severe outcry and/or a really good idea.

Okay, so are we talking about an exclusively character-based "grab bag"? 'Cause the problem with that is people will want to play POVs differently, so you can’t do anything too specific there, and while secondary characters can (and should) be plenty interesting, I don't honestly think you can run an entire contest that's about incorporating them alone. Well, I mean... you could. It just wouldn't be that great, IMO. They're just not enough and don't have the same degree of cohesion as the options in the last contest did. Additional grab bag material such as settings, the words and phrases thing and so on would help out a lot.

[donteatpoop]

As final overseer, you could modify submitted characters however you see fit. Course, I'm sure you already figured as much. Anyway, that way you can control uniformity.

I'd also like to suggest that if you go with character grab bag, have like a form that everyone has to use to fill out their submitted character. Like a character sheet from role playing, or something. Might make it easier. Possibly a word limit?

[Vesnic]

Is it just me, or have people gotten a lot more whiny about the contest theme? For cripes sake, just suck it up and do it. So it's not the EXACT image of what you yourself would have chosen? Oh, well, I guess that's just what happens when you're not the one who chooses it.

Seriously, people, you're all acting like a bunch of bleeding hemorrhoids here. I can understand your hesitancy in doing something that is utterly and completely removed from your experience and expertise. But everything that's been thrown out there is at least feasible and workable. That's the whole point of entering a contest--you get to CHALLENGE yourself.

Doopity doo!

And Usoki, stop being such a goddamn pushover (...didn't buy your empty threats about PMing everyone else but me, though it was a decent attempt at oogliness). You claimed at the beginning that you did not have democratic inclinations, so be a good little dictator and just make up your bloody mind already! You wouldn't want people to start calling you Usoki Doormat, First (and Last) of His Name, would you? Didn't think so.

So s*it or get off the pot.

[donteatpoop]

Is it just me or is Ves overly hyper of late? What happened to subdued depressed Ves? The one who wasn't so damn bossy and didn't smell like Cheetos? I miss Cheeto smelly Vesnic.

[Locke]

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[Vesnic]

Is it just me or is Ves overly hyper of late? What happened to subdued depressed Ves? The one who wasn't so damn bossy and didn't smell like Cheetos? I miss Cheeto smelly Vesnic.

Is it just me or is IS overly dull of late? What happened to interesting IS? The one that wasn't so damn inactive and actually hosted some lively discussions? I miss crazy, fun IS.

[Bear Bipolar-Bear]

Why does the Lady Ves always seem so cross? Does she not get enough bear hugs in her life? Does she need a teddy?

Smile, my Lady! For life is but a butterfly's sigh.

[BatCountry]

Life is a butterflys....sigh? A sigh!?! BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA! Oh Mr. Bear how I wish to play in your hundred acre wood and have tea and cookies with you sometime.


Your first story should be an autobiography. I want to get in the head of a bipolar bear. Figure out what you stand for man. You make life sound so....fluffy. I feel like I'm laying on feathery pillows, drifting softly to dreamland as you speak such peaceful poems in my ear. It almost makes me want to stop all the killing. Almost.



Too bad reality is a blood splattered mess of shame and poor choices. And baby body parts. And cow tounges. I wish I could live in your snuggly little world for but a brief moment Mr.Bear, so the thoughts of death stop crawling around in my head like a fistful of maggots.

[Usoki]

Okay, see, here's the thing about being a dictator. It doesn't automatically make you an evil tyrant, and it does not mean that you have to care about your own wants and needs over anyone elses. It means that, at the end of the day, you are the first and final voice when a decision needs to be made. I don't see how asking for ideas and opinions makes this a democratic process. I didn't invoke dictator rights to make speedy decisions that wind up pissing everyone off. I invoked dictator rights to prevent weeks of bickering and voting. There's a difference. You want me to stop being a Doormat? Okay then. Ves, shut up. Calm. The fuck. Down. I will post the next contest when I am damn well ready to, and not a moment sooner. I hardly see how a week or two will make any significant difference when we will still have over 10 months to write the story.

Okay, so are we talking about an exclusively character-based "grab bag"? 'Cause the problem with that is people will want to play POVs differently...blah blah whine.

Yes, we are talking about an exclusively character-based grab bag. No, it will be not limited to secondary characters. But, yes, people could still satisfy the contest's demands by only choosing secondary characters. You dismissed this rather quickly, and I'm not sure why. People want to do things, and so now I have to change everything to accomodate that? I'm not allowed to make them do things for the contest that they don't want to do? That sounds like a personal problem. If they think the characters are going to mess with writing POV, then they'll just have to pick different characters.

If I add more grab-bag elements, that will just further dilute the contest theme/challenge. I'm not really sure what you mean by cohesion here, because... you realize that this last contest was one of the most open-ended things we've done, right? Have you seen the contest history? Some of those were pretty ridiculous.

So, yes, this year's contest will be a character-incorporation challenge. When I come up with all of the initial characters, I will create the thread. This thread will include the rest of the rules, as well as the form to create additional characters. It will probably be up by this weekend, but I make no promises.

[Vesnic]

Okay, see, here's the thing about being a dictator. It doesn't automatically make you an evil tyrant, and it does not mean that you have to care about your own wants and needs over anyone elses.

Pffftt...clearly you've never been a dictator.

It means that, at the end of the day, you are the first and final voice when a decision needs to be made.

Right, and if you'd read the content of my post rather than just gotten your feathers ruffled by its tone, you'd have known that I wasn't suggesting to pick some absurd and hated topic. I didn't think you'd do that. But if the debate remains open much longer, I can just see this turning into another one of those egotistical free-for-alls where no one agrees with anyone, not so much because they really don't like the other people's ideas but because they just want to be heard and maybe say the most on the subject.

You want me to stop being a Doormat? Okay then. Ves, shut up. Calm. The fuck. Down.

'Attaboy!


Seriously, though, I'm just being my jolly old self--and may I remind Poop and Usoki that I just spent an assload of time thinking about your stories and carefully writing critiques that I thought might be useful. This is a "good side" of what I have to offer (haha, Locke, touche) that everyone seems to overlook.

People want to do things, and so now I have to change everything to accomodate that? I'm not allowed to make them do things for the contest that they don't want to do?

Why does this bit sound so familiar? Oh right, because I just said it myself! Funny how that works. I say something with which other people agree, but since it's generally agreed upon that I'm the one who gets the whipping, then you can just say "shut up, Ves" through one side of your mouth while parroting my very ideas through the other. Classy!

I dunno what's going on here. I think maybe the Man is getting to all of you, that spectre of Walking Coma whose icy touch freezes the wits and dulls the senses. I see this ghost nearly every day, haunting my town and terrorizing its citizens. It's even infiltrated into my own inner circle, making humorless, angry lumps out of my friends and family. It's a tragedy, really. It must suck to die before you're dead. That's why you must FIGHT. FIGHT the dying of the LIGHT! Seriously, though...

Do not go gentle...

[Usoki]

Don't get me wrong- the part of your post addressing Dreamshell is pretty spot on. I've never denied that. Forgive me if I don't take the time to mention all of the people who I know also share my opinion. The 'shut up' refers to you constantly harping on me to post something. That's the only area in which you should shut up. I'll get there when I get there. As far as the debate being open goes... that's the point I'm trying to make. There is no debate. I don't care if(when) it becomes an egostatistical free-for-all, because I'm the dictator, and I have the final say. That's why I mentioned this up front. You guys can do whatever you want in the meantime. It's no skin off my back.

And, good lord, it's not like I suddenly hate you because you're being hyperactive and eager. I appreciate your in-depth critiques like you wouldn't believe. I know you're being your jolly old self, just as you know that I'm being my cranky old self.

If 'that spectre of Walking Coma' and 'that spectre of Being Really Fucking Lazy' are the same thing? Then I agree. Otherwise, no, I just don't see it.

[Vesnic]

IWT 9 ... with a twist?

A thought occurred to me tonight as I was researching various occult subjects online. Things are not always as they seem. So perhaps we will have a contest theme this year...

which is only the beginning of a larger, stranger theme...

For example, let's say you decide to make the theme "vampires". Vampires with a twist of...incest? The adventure would be to write a story in which vampires and incest were co-themes, and uniquely related in some way invented by the author. They must be two sides of the same coin, not merely two separate themes.

You could easily do this grab-bag style. Set up a column A and a column B, each with disparate ideas and themes in them, but perhaps with column B containing slightly more narrow, specific concepts. Then challenge the authors to choose a theme from each column that they think they could combine to create something totally new.

Think of it as story alchemy.

Some ideas for

column A: vampires, rock n' roll, primary education, board games

column B: incest, obsessive compulsion, corruption, automation

[dreamshell]

Yes, we are talking about an exclusively character-based grab bag. No, it will be not limited to secondary characters. But, yes, people could still satisfy the contest's demands by only choosing secondary characters. You dismissed this rather quickly, and I'm not sure why.

My reason for dismissing 'secondary-characters/incorporating-characters-as-contest-theme' was just because it's my personal opinion that it's a weak theme overall. I said as much in my last post.

People want to do things, and so now I have to change everything to accom[m]odate that? I'm not allowed to make them do things for the contest that they don't want to do? That sounds like a personal problem. If they think the characters are going to mess with writing POV, then they'll just have to pick different characters.

Well, first off, you probably should work to make a contest people actually want to enter, yeah. =P

Second, when I said "people will want to play POVs differently," I was referring to a generic scenario where someone (besides the writer of a given entry) is reading a story. Since CYOAs should ideally be set up so a reader can do as they like (as much as is possible, anyway), my worry was turning a specific character you or someone else provides into a POV character might constrain a writer and likewise a reader too much, so that's why I dismissed that. Granted, it's just a concern, not an inevitability.

If I add more grab-bag elements, that will just further dilute the contest theme/challenge. I'm not really sure what you mean by cohesion here, because... you realize that this last contest was one of the most open-ended things we've done, right? Have you seen the contest history? Some of those were pretty ridiculous.

I was only around since a bit before the last contest, so no, I'm not familiar with the contest history. Regarding the lack of cohesion, that's because a set of characters, many of whom can fit into any genre, would give arguably too much free rein and lead to wildly dissimilar entries. It isn't necessarily bad, but... yeah. Less cohesive. There's no unifying theme as such, more of a gimmick. So my point was basically that the theme you seem to favor currently is already pretty diluted.

I was just throwing out some potential hiccups, in the end. You won the last contest, so do as you like. If I see something that attracts me, I'll try and enter. Otherwise, I won't. Same with everyone else.

Oh, and excuse me for trying to help out, fuckface. d(^_^)