TV shows

[End Master]

Seems I married a Targaryen, that being the house Katie got. Can't say I'm surprised by that result though.

[Vesnic]

No Arianne Martell?

I know Poop has a boner for Strong Belwas, but he was at least a somewhat minor character the writers chose to leave out of the story. It's recently come to my attention, however, that the very non-minor POV character Arianne Martell, princess of Dorne, will also not be making an appearance in the next season. Instead, the slutty/wild/fanservice Sand Snakes will be taking the screen as they swear revenge for their papa's not entirely friendly encounter with Gregor Clegane.

Now I can see some legitimate reasons for this omission. As the show develops and struggles to keep up with books which grew both more convoluted and more boring as the series progressed, some hard decisions will have to be made. They're already being made, as we saw increasingly towards the end of last season. Besides, if they pack too much plot on screen, where will they fit the titties?

But you see, that's just it. Arianne actually had something like a personality, logical and self-possessed, plotting away in daddy's castle and just generally being a passionate, independent Dornishwoman. Taking her out of the picture is one more elimination of an interesting female character, thus further singling out Daenerys as really the only active, mobile, unattached woman in Westeros and beyond. Never mind the small detail that Daenerys herself has become little more than an empty bikini at this point, flitting around in her silks as a strange amalgamation of Jenna Jameson and Joan of Arc.

To be fair, I nearly always found Arianne's chapters slightly boring and I never quite grew to like her or to sense that inner life which is so resplendent in other, invariably male, figures in the book. In terms of pure logistics, the prevailing theories seem to be that her plot-line will now be handed down to young Tristayne Martell, which is really a pity because he's just a snot-nosed kid. So much for badass Dorne kicking primogeniture squarely in the balls.

Sigh.

[End Master]

But you see, that's just it. Arianne actually had something like a personality, logical and self-possessed, plotting away in daddy's castle and just generally being a passionate, independent Dornishwoman.

Doesn't really sound like she was that independent or even her "own person" if she's plotting from the safety of her dad's castle. Sounds like just another privileged, backstabbing scheming Tyrell woman actually.

Weren't you the one who said, "What achievement is it to use your money, privilege and family connections just to gain an even more privileged position?"

Or at least that was what you were saying about Margaery Tyrell when I was saying how much better she was at playing the "game of thrones" than Sansa was.

Anyway I disagree with your assessment of Daenerys. First she's a lot better looking than that cum dumpster Jenna (Have you seen her lately? She alternates from looking like a plastic mannequin to a beat up whore depending on how much make up she has on at the moment.)

Second, unless Dany's suddenly been fucking every horse lord, merchant king, and petty dictator on that continent in exchange for people to start supporting her, I don't really see the comparison.

Not really a Joan of Arc type either, she's not "pure" enough and too arrogant (It's a "polite" arrogance, but as a Targaryen she still displays it).

To a certain extent I can sort of see arguments being made about her being slightly "Mary Sueish" but that term is thrown around far too often and I feel like she does go through enough challenges where she doesn't necessarily overcome them with ease.

Besides, Brienne of Tarth and Arya Stark aren't attached to anyone either and they're pretty independent.

EDIT: Of course I haven't seen the 4th season yet, so it's possible all these characters have severely changed since the third and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

[Vesnic]

SPOILER ALERT: I'm going to discuss some major plot points of books 4 and 5!

Weren't you the one who said, "What achievement is it to use your money, privilege and family connections just to gain an even more privileged position?"

Yes, I said that and I see I didn't really make it clear in my post why I don't think Arianne fits entirely into that same mold with Margaery and Cersei. Basically, she's willing to risk quite a lot more than they are, including her comfort and privileges, for a larger vision of what she would consider an improved state of affairs. She ends up being imprisoned by her father after her plot involving Myrcella comes to a gruesome end. She is certainly a daughter of privilege, but her schemes have greater political intent, involving more than just getting herself from point A to a more prestigious point B. That's not to say she doesn't also look out for Number 1, but that applies to every character in the book still in possession of a head.

After doing a quick search, I found that several other people have come to the same conclusion that omitting Arianne can potentially be construed as sexist. The sexism comes not from promoting a single type of female ideal, but from the lack of variety in female occupation, motivation and achievement. Women, even "good" women, are just as diverse and idiosyncratic as men, and that's what I think is in danger of being missed here if they remove Arianne, warts and all, from the fifth season.

Besides, Brienne of Tarth and Arya Stark aren't attached to anyone either and they're pretty independent.

They're also at this point in the books and series both politically marginal. In the final episode of Season 4, Brienne fights the Hound in her attempt to rescue Arya, who then evades Brienne and leaves the Hound to die at the bottom of a cliff in the middle of a barren wasteland. I found this image to be very telling of the female experience in this series. Those women who are mentally and physically independent are completely ostracized. You might argue that this is nothing more than a reflection of a realistic society based in factually sexist history. Very well then, that's all the more reason why Arianne should have been included in the next season, as a rebellious yet still incorporated character whose trajectory in the books is truly unique. After her jailing, which is really more of a confinement in a comfortable tower room, she has the chance to continue exerting her political influence. I'm still looking forward to seeing how this might develop in the books and I'm disappointed it won't exist at all on HBO.

Of course I haven't seen the 4th season yet, so it's possible all these characters have severely changed since the third and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

As I said before, Sansa is really the one to look out for. I think you'll enjoy her in bondage black stepping fully into her role as Little Finger's protege. My money is definitely on her.

[End Master]

Ah, okay. Thanks.

I think Arianna Martell is going to be one of the major POV character in the new book coming out. So I'm guessing they really will be doing a severe split from the books then if they eliminated her altogether.

[donteatpoop]

Personal opinion on the series. Since they're confined to 10 episodes a season, they just don't have the room for a character like Arianne and her story arch(s). Though I'm sure they'll play with it a bit, at least in the "lets help Myrcella escape" bit; I don't think that the things Martin has planned for her can fit into the ten hours which already feature some pretty rushed storylines.

[End Master]

I actually just rewatched season 1 and currently in the process of rewatching season 2.

I know I felt this way the first time I watched it, but I just find the Iron Isle people sort of silly.

I know they're supposed to based on the Vikings and they're bad ass raiders, but I dunno, whenever they're shouting and ranting about "Paying the iron price" I find it kind of amusing.

They just remind me of little more than loosely organized thugs than proper houses. Seems like their economy would be completely in the crapper during times of peace. I mean guess they do a lot of fishing to feed themselves, but they certainly make a big deal about not farming and all the other stuff no true warrior would do. Not to mention those rocks don't look like they're good for growing too much. (Hence the raiding and thrall taking lifestyle I suppose)

Sort of surprised they're even considered a "kingdom."

Never liked really liked Theron or his dad, but his sister is okay though.

Hey I guess Asha Greyjoy could be considered another female who isn't attached to anyone and is in a position of power. Though I guess she probably doesn't have too much political power on a grand scale.

[Vesnic]

Personal opinion on the series. Since they're confined to 10 episodes a season, they just don't have the room for a character like Arianne and her story arch(s).

Yeah, they really do have a LOT to fit in, too much in fact. Since it's come down to a game of cut and paste though, I could have dealt with a bit more pasting for Arianne and a lot more cutting for Bran and Co., for instance. I'd say a once-a-season update consisting of some wide-angle shot of Bran, Hodor and the Boghoppers trudging through the snow looking absolutely miserable with a caption reading, "Yep, they're still at it. Poor sods." would more than have sufficed. Hodor's eloquence is really the only thing keeping those moments of the show even the slightest bit bearable.

Also, certain scenes like that ridiculous wankfest with Prince Oberyn in the whorehouse could have been cut waaayyy down. I get it. He's a polyamorous, whoremongering meta-sexual with a heart of gold, even if he does contain within his person every social disease known to man and donkey. And it was nice of them to put in a plug for big girls when he criticized one of the hookers for being too skinny, but seriously that scene could have been a third as long and not missed a beat. That's how I see it, anyway.

I know they're supposed to based on the Vikings and they're bad ass raiders, but I dunno, whenever they're shouting and ranting about "Paying the iron price" I find it kind of amusing.

So it's not just me, then? I feel the exact same way about them. The Iron Isles chapters in the book always left me sort of befuddled, with this weird feeling like I'd just been dropped down an elevator shaft, from the apex of intrigue and high drama to the low-ball gallery of historically incorrect Brunhilda helmets.

Hey I guess Asha Greyjoy could be considered another female who isn't attached to anyone and is in a position of power. Though I guess she probably doesn't have too much political power on a grand scale.

If only they'd give her some screen time. She's another POV character in the books and her role has only been growing in scope. At this point in the series, she should really be better represented if the audience is going to be expected to buy into her machinations and vying for power, her captaining ships full of Ironborn raiders and just general hell-raising. Like Arianne though, there's something about Asha that just doesn't quite add up for me. People keep saying Martin is great at writing women, and I certainly don't think he's bad at it. But when it comes down to the reasoning behind their actions and the inner monologues, something always seems just slightly askew about them to me.

Not to split hairs, though. I'm really looking forward to next season. Other than that, I need to catch up on the last episodes of True Blood, as soon as I figure out the cheapest way to watch them. The show hasn't really interested me in the last three seasons, but I've just gotta finish what I started. Y'all know what that's like.

[End Master]

as soon as I figure out the cheapest way to watch them.

Well you could always pay the iron price for them. (Couldn't resist)

[Vesnic]

Well you could always pay the iron price for them. (Couldn't resist)

Oh you are very bad indeed! Hahahaha!

Of course, if the iron price involves a nice Nordic fella dripping testosterone and the blood of his enemies then my answer is: SOLD!

[End Master]

Never realized George R.R. Martin wrote one of the more memorable episodes of the 80s Twilight Zone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xmU-L5wxa0

[dreamshell]

Yeah, he talks about that one a lot. Adapted from a story by Roger Zelazny, one of his old friends.

Also, apparently he played a partial, inadvertent role in inspiring Chewbacca.

[BatCountry]

That article regarding Chewbacca just blew my mind! George Lucas is a plagiarizing thug! I'm surprised he hasn't digitally enhanced Chewie in any way yet. Well I guess he can't now since he technically doesn't own Star Wars anymore...Wow that feels weird to say.

[Vesnic]

George Lucas is on my personal shitlist, fo sho. I don't know why so many people seem to have given him a free pass for his massive out-sellage. He was such an incredible visionary once upon a time. I realize a man has got to get a bit fat and happy at some point, you know, smoke the Havanas and make sure his armchairs are properly upholstered. But still, Lucas' actions always struck me as a bit...extreme. I guess he just does nothing by halves.

I think with this post I'll have attained new status or something. Hoorah. Status. Me likes status. Me famous. Yum yum feed me.

I like how we're discussing TV in the movies thread and vice versa. That feels appropriately IS. Appropriately us. I like the little hole they've dug for themselves with this new "Star Wars" release. Ford gets snapped in half in the first week of shooting. Poor Chewie's legs could give out at any minute, and all of them just have this dangerous look of imminent expiration about them. Fischer is batshit insane, but I guess they've got her on nuclear doses of lithium. Have any of you seen Stephen Fry's documentary about manic depression? He seemed to strike up a sort of simpatico friendship with her and interviewed her perhaps a bit more than he should have. Like I really think he was just very starstruck, because she came out with some amazingly outerspacey stuff, far beyond the invention of "normal" cretins like you and me.

Somebody sent me an espresso machine. I haven't slept in three days. You never give up drugs, you just spin the lazy susan and the next dish comes right up. Of course caffeine is really just a top note. I'll have to find a darker muskier sort of thing to give it some, shall I say, heft. Yes, heft.

TV, I don't really do that anymore. It doesn't go with my cheap store-bought hair dye.

[End Master]

George Lucas is on my personal shitlist, fo sho. I don't know why so many people seem to have given him a free pass for his massive out-sellage. He was such an incredible visionary once upon a time. I realize a man has got to get a bit fat and happy at some point, you know, smoke the Havanas and make sure his armchairs are properly upholstered. But still, Lucas' actions always struck me as a bit...extreme. I guess he just does nothing by halves.

I think most people hated him after he did the Star Wars prequels, so by the time he completely sold out, nobody gave a shit anymore and figured Disney couldn't do any worse of a job with the Star Wars stuff. And he was probably sick of the complaints, so he was like "fuck it" too.

Though the Star Wars nerd rage is hilarious since from what I've heard Disney has officially thrown out ALL those expanded Star Wars universe stories (glorified fanfic) and none of it is canon anymore. Not even a little bit.

At least the trekkies got to hang on to the old trek universe by having the new movies set in an alternate parallel universe.