TV shows

[dreamshell]

Well, when you refer to it in the extreme, sure, those people end up sounding like callous assholes. But everyone has a limit on how much time, attention and compassion they can afford to exhaust on another person in a given moment or even long-term. In the case of a person suffering from depression, they are at least somewhat at the mercy of their dysfunction, but even they must take responsibility for their actions and in pursuing the best ways to combat their personal demons. Incessantly crying on your friend's shoulder will offer a brief respite at best, but might only vent rather than address the problem and runs the risk of straining the relationship if the dependency progresses exponentially.

I'll agree with you that people could certainly stand to learn to be more sympathetic, but at the same time, there are people whose job it is to be available and lend an ear and advice, which the depressed might be better off seeking out if they want to do something about their illness. This is surely easier said than done, of course; I know I'd be reluctant to air my problems to a stranger, professional or no. Which I guess is why spreading awareness is doubly important, so as to provide a more encouraging atmosphere.

As for self-hatred, it's a symptom of depression, not synonymous with it. I imagine the relationship to narcissism would be due to how preoccupied the depressed individual might become with their own poor perception of themselves (the 'woe is me' mentality) at the expense of the world around them and the troubles of others. This isn't to say this is the experience of everyone with depression, it's just one way for it to manifest. And since this is an issue of chemical imbalance, the difference between merely recognizing it as a byproduct of the condition, condemning someone struggling with it or using the condition as an excuse and thus enabling the behavior seems incredibly hazy.

[End Master]

Just out of curiosity Ves, what social circles are you running in ( if any) and what kind of dickhead people are you dealing with on a regular basis?

You've mentioned in several threads over the past few months about how the world is filled with assholes, (No argument here) but surely this can't all just be from an observation of the world in general, this has to be somewhat sparked by people personally being assholes to you directly. (I know you mentioned your doctors and random fucktards here and there, but I'm guessing there are others)

I'm just wondering, because as misanthropic as I am, I haven't really encountered any more of a rise in assholiliness than usual. Granted I try my best to practically live like a recluse in a hermetically sealed vault (Lol) but all I seem to have encountered instead is the assholishness taking a slightly different form than I'm used to which is namely in a more passive aggressive manner, or worse a self righteous manner of getting offended in the name of others or whatever popular cause they're supporting at the moment.

(Oh Detroit, sometimes I really miss your more direct and survivalist form of violent antisocial behavior)

[Vesnic]

Just out of curiosity Ves, what social circles are you running in ( if any) and what kind of dickhead people are you dealing with on a regular basis?

To answer your question, from my point of view, it's not a matter of people becoming bigger assholes so much as shrinking into less of themselves. I find myself wondering with increasing frequency, "Is anybody home?". It has become more difficult to connect to people because I sense the overall trend is to be self-protective above all else, incurious and often intolerant of anything that falls outside of an ever-narrowing comfort zone. I question myself a lot, asking myself if it's just me reflecting my own problems onto others. However, some of the more insightful people I know have said that they see these things too, so I don't feel utterly alone.

The problem for me is that, due to my history and also the nature of who I am, I am always going to be "different". I have faults like anyone, but when things get really hopeless is when I try to make myself understood to people who just don't seem to have enough space in their minds for anything but the most pre-packaged of situations.

I feel like we, as a population in general, are losing the best of ourselves, and we weren't so great to begin with.

[Vesnic]

Well, Season 5 of Game of Thrones is finally done. Episode 10 was a great improvement on the previous one, if for no other reason than its return to many of the events and dynamics of the books, with one important exception: Stannis. As for him, there was nothing left to do but kill him, since he had forfeited all right to life when he sacrificed his daughter.

Absolutely no one, including me, seems convinced of the permanence of Jon Snow's "death". It's been a long while since I read A Dance with Dragons, but it seemed to me that there were many hints of Melisandre's seeing the "true king" in Jon Snow. I wonder why she stuck around so long with Stannis. Surely that single rebuff to her sexual wiles couldn't have been enough to discourage a red priestess of the satanic fire god! Perhaps she just wanted to make sure that Stannis was well and truly broken, thus ensuring that he wouldn't care "a mummer's fart" whether he lived or died. Mission accomplished. There is nothing I would put past her. But what I don't understand about her is why she didn't just pull some kind of smoke trick and murder Stannis herself, saving the trouble of all those uncomfortable marches and lack of access to pretty dresses. Does she really believe in her god or is she just another player? What about the High Sparrow?

Now that the books and show are chronologically even (though with different pieces left on the chessboard), we book folk will simply have to wonder what comes next and pray to one of those innumerable gods that it's in the hands of some truly capable storytellers. Martin has announced he will not be involved in the writing of the sixth season. However, it is known that he has also made his super-secret plans for the remainder of the stories clear to HBO. I wonder how many of those big plans they're contractually obligated to uphold. More importantly, though, I'm hoping that in the Martin-less season(s) to come, they won't forget to keep the characters interesting. Cersei's Walk of Shame was very impactful in the books because it marked the first moment when there was no fear in anyone's heart but her own. In the books, she has been going a bit mad for quite awhile now. I hope the show has the good sense not to merely restore her to her old mindlessly vengeful ways, cocksure and unconcerned with the discontents of the little people. I hope she is well and truly shaken, as any believable human character would be.

In the books, Myrcella has been maimed, not murdered, a fate that I find far more interesting for a pretty Lannister lady. I'm hoping maybe Bronn's gross little girlfriend slipped him a vial of antidote so she can be saved. Repeatedly killing off kind characters and beating or burning children really is reaching the level of comedy, not to mention self-parody.

On a funny side-note, did anyone else think that the male flasher in the Walk of Shame sequence was put there exclusively for the purpose of fending off accusations that women are the only ones forced to go fully nude in this show? If so, then it was a, um, floppy attempt at best.

[dreamshell]

I think I probably enjoyed last night's episode more than the rest of the season altogether. It was wall-to-wall, a roller coaster, a tug-of-war, a tidal wave of WTFs. Selyse! Stannis! Brienne! Sansa and Theon! Arya and Trant! Arya and Jaqen! The Meereenese crew! Varys! Dothraki! Jaime and Myrcella! Cersei! Jon and Sam! Jon and the stabbity-stabbers!

I liked Stannis' final scenes. They really had this hopeless atmosphere that was a total turnaround from, say, his arrival in the North to break Mance's army. "Do your duty, then..." But I do feel there was an element of rushing to his end on the writers' parts, though, which explains his flimsy actions in the last few episodes.

As for Jon, I don't know, I've already seen a lot of people ("Unsullied," as they're called) lamenting his 'death' and expressing their intent to ragequit the show.

As for Mel and her position re: Stannis and Jon, I'm a bit confused, too. I think she legitimately believes in the Lord of Light and legitimately believed Stannis was Azor Ahai, but for some reason the show had her proposition Jon all the same and make allusions to his blood (I think; I may be misremembering). I guess she was acting in the hopes of persuading him in Stannis' favor? I dunno.

Yeah, I sort of found the Walk of Shame and the For the Watch moments a bit lackluster. That seems to be my recurring impression when it comes to the show recreating iconic moments from the books. Just the nature of adaptation, maybe. Headey's was still a solid performance, though. Less won over by those of the Night's Watch members.

Yyyeah, I really doubt any of the Sand Snakes would sabotage their mother's plan to get petty revenge on the Lannisters. Firstly, because they and the Dornish in general have been portrayed as pretty fucking toothless so far in the show - they had like three opportunities to kill Bronn and they didn't. I like Bronn and all, but it really undermines their threat. Last night being the exception, I guess, but that's bound to go poorly for them in the long run. Second, because no one in Westeros can have nice things. ;_; But I do find it at least thematically interesting that in seeking blood for blood in Oberyn's name, Ellaria has done something he'd probably be pretty personally disgusted by. "We do not hurt little girls in Dorne," or so he thought. Compare his scene with Cersei last season, Ellaria's with Jaime and Jaime's with Myrcella. Ugh. Brutal.

[End Master]

Looking at a clip on Youtube, it seems like it's 50/50 with Stannis being really dead. I really wouldn't be surprised if he's still alive next season.

Glad to hear the Boltons managed to make it through another season though. I figured at least one of them would be dead by the end of this one.

[Vesnic]

It's time to put on makeup. It's time to fight the fights...

What the fuck did they do to the Muppets?

I did a weird thing last night. I watched network TV. It was everything I hoped it would be. And less. Immediate reactions: Has the ratio of programming to commercials now reached 1:1? Is there a story buried somewhere in there? Is the writing so bad on purpose? What happened to Statler and Waldorf's box seat?

I dared to hope just a tiny bit because the Muppets were returning to their original format on TV, which always seemed a better venue for their particular talents than the movies. Of course I was wary and had the bar set pretty low. Yet somehow I still managed to be disappointed. Derivative in the extreme, defeating its own purpose in trying to be relevant for today's audience, taking huge leaps backward in empathy, subtlety and social awareness, and replacing story and wit with self-aggrandizing tone deafness and a wide streak of mean. Worst of all: who wants to live in a world where Kermit and Piggy are not together?

People really do respond when something is put in front of them to which they can actually relate. Why won't networks, record labels and film studios catch on to the notion that what they now perceive as high-risk is in fact just what millions of people are dying to finally regain? Sure, there are plenty out there who also respond to flashy garbage, but that response is shallow, leaving no lasting impression, just a hunger for the real thing.

It really is too bad that one happy memory or association after another just seems to get mutilated and profaned. Nothing is safe. Nothing was too good to be pulled down from its pedestal and morphed into its own evil twin. As for original content, shows with not only a new name but also a new idea or two, is that really asking for too much?

[End Master]

I didn't watch it, but I did hear about the new changes and I don't see the show lasting very long.

Though people are already making jokes about the British Prime Minister being the real reason for Kermit and Miss Piggy's break up.

[donteatpoop]

Vesnic, we can no longer be friends. The Office / 30 Rock spoof was a winning combination for me. The first thing from the Muppets that I've liked in quite a while (well except for that one movie they made right before Muppets Most Wanted)

[Vesnic]

I'm very sorry to hear that, Poop. We had a good run though. Unlike this new "Muppets" show, which I imagine will sputter, skid, crash, explode and burn like a motherfucker. Or get a whole lot better (insert laugh track). As for me, I'll just keep on truckin'.

Note: the above link doesn't really tie in to this or any other post. The song is just really badly stuck in my head and I don't like suffering in solitude.

[End Master]

So I finally saw the last five episodes of Game of Thrones season 5.

While I liked the whole season, I felt the last half (Which I initially missed) was a lot better than the first five. Of course everything had to be set up in the first episodes, so it was fine.

While I know people got all weepy about Shireen and people are still feeling sorry for Sansa, really out of all suffering "royal daughters" this season I felt sympathy for was Myrcella since she REALLY got set up for an "unhappy ending", whereas Sansa is just continually going through the butt monkey mambo. The scene with her and Ramsay got blown WAY out proportion, I was expecting some horrible rape scene like everyone was bitching about, and all the guy did was consummate the consensual wedding night a little rougher than usual. (Off camera)

And Shireen was basically an unloved daughter (Her mom didn't give a shit until it was too late, and Stannis was distant at best) scarred with grayscale, really not surprising she didn't have a good end.

Just going by the TV Show, I don't think it was really excessively out of character for Stannis to burn his daughter alive. He's already proven to be completely obsessed at this point with winning the Iron Throne to the point where he's not even thinking rationally in a military manner any more. Anyway, kind of hoping he's dead since I sort of feel like he's played out his shaggy dog story.

Sort of thought it was silly when all the Dorthaki were circling around Dany at the end and also the part where everyone is fighting in the arena and then suddenly everything stops for a bit for her to have this "moment" with her dragon. Lol.

Anyway, they're supposed to focus back on the Greyjoy front again next season, which I sort of would have rather they had done this season, since I didn't really care about all the Dorne stuff and the sand snakes.

Yes, I know they apparently messed the snakes up from the books, but it just felt like a lot of stuff was unresolved with the ironborn and it was jarring without them being in it at all this season and I could have easily done without Oberon's vengeful lover and his offspring and would have rather seen more of Asha or her uncle Euron that's going to finally appear in season 6.

[Vesnic]

On second thought, let's not go to Dorne. 'Tis a silly place.

While I know people got all weepy about Shireen and people are still feeling sorry for Sansa, really out of all suffering "royal daughters" this season I felt sympathy for was Myrcella since she REALLY got set up for an "unhappy ending", whereas Sansa is just continually going through the butt monkey mambo.

I don't know what kind of bone you have to pick with Sansa, but to me she remains the most interesting of the royal daughters because she's a.) still alive and b.) still playing the game, or doing the butt monkey mambo, depending on your point of view. Not every woman can become a warrior or a renegade. Sansa is doing her best to stay alive and occasionally to do a good turn or make her own mark on events, and she does all this from within "the system", within the cultural norms established by the society to which she belongs. Myrcella's story is just silly. They built her up only to knock her down. As I mentioned before, this is a huge deviation from the books, where she is maimed, not murdered. A Lannister has to be pretty, doesn't she? How does a Lannister with a gash across her face get by? What else does she have to rely on, assuming she doesn't go totally off the rails like Arya and go serve some demon god in Braavos?

The scene with her and Ramsay got blown WAY out proportion, I was expecting some horrible rape scene like everyone was bitching about, and all the guy did was consummate the consensual wedding night a little rougher than usual.

I wouldn't call their wedding consensual. Sansa may not have been literally kicking and screaming on her way to the altar, but this, like so much else she is obliged to do, is not her will. A woman being coerced is a woman whose will is being denied her, so how would she then be in a position to vocalize every assault on her honor, dignity, wishes, morals, etc.? The problem comes again from a somewhat nonsensical choice on the part of the show runners where they decided they had to deviate from the books. In the actual story, it's Jeyne Poole, Sansa's girlhood friend at Winterfell, who is pawned off as "Arya Stark" in marriage to Ramsay. I can understand why this was too complicated for the show, but there were still other choices that could have been made, ones that would have made more sense for the characters' motivations. Sansa might be considered Littlefinger's Achilles heel. He's a cold motherfucker, but it's hard to see even him setting Westeros' biggest monster on the single object of his affections. Likewise, Sansa should have been more appalled by her return to Winterfell, seeing how it has been desecrated in Bolton hands, haunted by her memories. As for the rape scene, I wasn't at all surprised or insulted by it. Spousal rape is not a concept in Westeros and I don't know how anyone expected Ramsay of all people to suddenly morph into a tender loving husband. That was one part of the whole Return to Winterfell subplot that I thought was absolutely right for the people and situations.

Sort of thought it was silly when all the Dorthaki were circling around Dany at the end...

In the book, a widowed Dothraki khaleesi is expected to retire quietly with all the other royal widows to Vaes Dothrak. Dany, having lost her Khal, is something of a fugitive among the Dothraki now. The ones who choose to ride with her in a new khalasar are all rebels in the eyes of their people.

...and also the part where everyone is fighting in the arena and then suddenly everything stops for a bit for her to have this "moment" with her dragon. Lol.

Yeah, that was intensely silly.

Anyway, they're supposed to focus back on the Greyjoy front again next season

That's good to hear. I had kind of assumed that they'd let the Greyjoy story drop because Asha/Yara wasn't hot enough and/or because there were just too many damn characters established by the end of Season 3. At the very least, we'll be sure to have some awesome sea battles once the Vikings return.

[End Master]

As an infamous crazy clown once said, I think you and I are destined to do this forever…

Okay maybe “Playing the Game of Thrones” means something different to you, but I’m sort of going by the Cersi or Baelish mindset, in that "playing the game" means everything you’re ultimately doing isn’t JUST to survive, but to IMPROVE your station in some way. (Not necessarily gaining some uncomfortable chair)

And it also helps if you aren’t a pawn in your efforts to do this.

I’ve probably mentioned this before, but so far to me Sansa hasn’t really done any of that or if she has, it’s not really been on her own accord and it’s been more of a case of dumb luck rather than any sort of skill or cleverness.

Now of course she’s no warrior/renegade, but there’s plenty of examples of other women who aren’t doing the Yara or Brienne thing and they’ve been doing more or less okay on their own. (Well until the Faithful fucked everyone up)

Yes, I’m sure you’ll remind me that someone like Cersi and Margery are already in positions of privilege whereas Sansa is working from a lesser station, but I’m sorry she has still made one terrible decision after another and has only survived mainly due to the mercy of others.

Tyrion pretty much protects her when he can in King’s Landing and the Hound looks out for her as well a couple times. Arguably even Cersi is looking out for her in the beginning because it’s already been set up for her to marry Joffrey and they’re just waiting around for her to bleed (before Margery shows up and the situation changes)

Eventually Baelish saves her from King’s Landing because she’s a useful pawn in his plans as well as his whole obsession with her looking like her mom at a younger age.

When she finally got out of King’s Landing, it looked like she was going to have that big personality change like what you were telling me (and is probably more prominent in the books) but whoops, she’s Ramsay’s fucktoy and back to square one again.

Of course she escaped, but THAT was only because of Reekboy having a Darth Vader redemption moment Pretty obvious that was going to happen, not really a fan of Theon though either since he’s pretty pathetic even before he became Reek. Hell, he's basically the “Male Sansa”

I have not seen any major growth in her character and certainly nothing compelling. Even when she’s attempting to play “mind games” by reminding Ramsay about being a bastard for example, she fails at that pretty horribly.

I would have been a lot more impressed if Sansa did something similar with Ramsay like how Margery was successfully manipulating Joffrey with ease. Seems like watching all the backstabbery with the Lannisters, the Tyrells, and Baelish she would have learned SOMETHING.

So to me she’s just a pathetic character all the way around and I just can’t get into characters like that. Or at least I can’t get into them other than maybe to enjoy watching them getting tortured even more since that’s the only thing they’re good for. She doesn’t need to be a warrior, she just needs to stop being a damsel in distress.

And assuming her story isn’t the biggest shaggy dog story of them all (Hey entirely possible!) I’m quite sure she’ll probably become a queen of something in the end. She might even directly or indirectly kill someone that has done great wrong to her (Either Baelish or Ramsay at this point I suppose) but by the time that happens the show will either be over or nearly over and I won’t care one way or another.

On top of all that, she’s a filthy red head! Lol.

But of course this is all my opinion and I know she’s one of your favorite characters so I wasn’t looking to change your mind about her, just re-explaining my position in one long winded post.

[BatCountry]

....I likes teh drwagonz.

[Vesnic]

She doesn’t need to be a warrior, she just needs to stop being a damsel in distress.

Balls. Trust a man not to see just how much a damsel in distress is playing his sorry ass. She knows exactly where her power lies, as Cersei says, between her thighs. Look at this poor delicate kitten! You wouldn't drown such a hewpwess wittle welp, would you? Batting the big eyelashes, making sure the audience sees her artful tears. Sansa is a pretty child and trust me, she knows it. Aesthetically gifted children know they are adorable and have learned how to be petted. A girl like her, just on the cusp of what promises to be a very splendid womanhood, has double this awareness. Her saintly misery is her strength. Never underestimate the potency of pity. The men keep her alive so they can fuck her someday. The women keep her alive so their menfolk will rejoice in the milk of female kindness and leave them alone to their own quiet machinations. The good of heart truly feel for her and the black of heart revel in her prolonged torture. In any case she wins by, yes, maintaining the ability to breathe. Those players with their clever gambits have a habit of getting dead by the end of the hour. Once the field has thinned, she may yet come into her power.