dnewton is a punkass bitch

[ChubbyTeletubby]

I disagree Ves. We need to continue brainstorming. Take a day or two to reflect on all of these ideas, then come together and decide.

I like what Katie is proposing a lot. But we need to brainstorm some more. Simplify the plan and come to a consensus.

Ya'll with me here? We need everyone to get involved here if this matters to you. And I think it actually matters a lot to most people. So let's quit being a bunch of whiners, organize ourselves, and VOTE on a plan.

Ya'll with me?

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

Wow Chubbs, this new job has you taking command and really being logical. I'm pleased.

As for unfinished stories, it is true that a lot of us fail to complete them, but it could be motivational. If you want to be on the list, finish your story. However, I am not opposed to Ves' idea of the list being a reward for contest winners...

However you guys want to do it is fine. Especially if censorship isn't involved.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Keep the ideas coming folks. Just remember that in the end it needs to be streamlined and simple in it's implementation.

So far I think Katie has the best plan. We'll just have to give everyone time to read over all of this, and join us in our well orchestrated crusade.

Sev is a reasonable man and I think he would respond if we all PMed him with the SAME message.

Remember when he put up that banner? BACK BY POPULAR DEMAND - CHUBBYTELETUBBY!

That was because he was flooded with PMs of a similar nature.

I'm not saying we harass him. But I think he would respect us if we ALL came forward with ONE idea.

Oh, and thank you, Katie.

I AM feeling logical today. For once.

[Vesnic]

Well, Chubby, Katie and I all seem to be in agreement, so this would be the cue for other people to step forward if they have any other bright ideas or are happy to go along with this one.

[End Master]

Yeah alright, a list of recommended stories is fine.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Well I would just like to add that while I am quite certain EndMaster and Apoth are two extremely bright individuals their push for a 'moderator' is simply unattainable.

I can guarantee you Sev is NOT going to appoint a moderator. As much as I agree with you guys that a moderator WOULD be useful, it simply isn't going to happen. Simply. Simply makes me sound smart. thank you God, for simply.

So let's scratch that idea, shall we?

DEP's idea is pretty wonderful, at first glance. But complicated to implement and easy to abuse. DEP is an extremely bright fellow as well, but I think his idea isn't feasible.

So please, all of you, take Katies grain of sand and make a pearl out of it. If we all come together we CAN get things accomplished. We can fashion this to our liking, and fulfill it's latent greatness.

Keep the ideas coming. A vote deadline should be set, but even IT should be lenient. Sleep on it, Katie and Ves. Give it a couple days. Let your unconscious mind work it's brilliance. We'll figure out something.

What we need now is an '80s MONTAGE!

[Locke]

This issue seems to come up over and over. My own ideas from last time around still pretty much describe my thoughts; they seem to have killed the last topic.

I suppose I don't object to a "best of" list, though the minutiae should be completely fleshed out before it's given form as a full proposal. I'm assuming this will either be a category like the others on the main page, a link like the now-defunct one for "infinite writing tournament," or a criterion readers can use to sort stories in the database (total ratings, total rooms, etc). Regardless of how it's presented, several questions come to mind.

First, is this a simple list, with all entries being equal, or do stories in the list have rankings relative to one another, possibly dependant upon the number of votes each receives? If they're equal, do we rotate randomly the order in which they appear, or simply list them alphabetically, by author, etc?

Second, how are stories selected for inclusion in the new category? I'm assuming there will be some kind of vote or consensus involved, whether as an option appended to each story or as a more private, less formal matter to be resolved in the forum.

Third - who is elegible to vote the stories in? Your complaint seems to be that letting the general public voice their opinions on a story without restriction isn't cutting it, so if your answer to the last question is "everyone" the new category will be little different than the "overall rating" or "top rated" categories, and prone to the same abuses. Site members, forum members, those with on-site stories of their own, a board elected by forum members? Apoth and a bottle of vodka?

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Keep them flowing. Keep them flowing.

We WILL reach a consensus.

I honestly, TRULY, have no idea what any of you are getting at.

Whatsoever. SO. Ya. Whatever. I really think I am not one of you whatsoever.

So ever. What.

No.

Whatever. Katie seems to make the most sense still. Katie, please elaborate on your plan so these simple-minded apes can understand it. I totally caught on to your vibe and it seemed...right...

Yes. Vodka.

Bottle.

Swig.

Median.

Table.

Lights.

*passes out*

ZzzZZzZzZZzZ

[Usoki]

Yes, yes- form a concensus. We got in the first time, Chubby.

But, while finding unfinished stories can be annoying, Ves is right- that'd eliminate too much stuff. Though I resent that only End would end up on that list- there'd be a special guest appearance by Rentyre. XD

Personally, I think a "high-quality" list is an amazing idea. We come up with a list on the forum, (20-40 stories) and submit that to Sev. Then, on a yearly basis, the forum then decides if any other stories (new or improved) should be added. We give the new additions to Sev, he puts them on the list; everyone is happy.

Heck, I think that's be a better list than "Most Popular". Because "Most Popular" and "High Quality" are not the same thing. It'd certainly reflect the site better to have End and DEP and Ves and Katie and FunkyMango and whoever else on the front page, rather than HOID and AMM.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

We Must Form A Consensus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[apotheosis]

I disagree. With all of it.

[ChubbyTeletubby]

Nobody asked for your input, apoth.

Now run along.

[Vesnic]

Personally, I think a "high-quality" list is an amazing idea. We come up with a list on the forum, (20-40 stories) and submit that to Sev. Then, on a yearly basis, the forum then decides if any other stories (new or improved) should be added. We give the new additions to Sev, he puts them on the list; everyone is happy.

I think this is very well expressed. It seems like a good number of stories, and it would make it easier on Sev to have a specific interval of time for new additions to this list. As for the order of appearance, I agree that the best way would be to randomize this list as the others on the front page are. As for who gets to decide what is added, I see no reason why this shouldn't be an "elitist" sort of thing. It should be up to the regular members of the forums who are also active authors: end of story. Really, we're doing a service to the casual visitor to the site by handing them a bunch of stories that are highly recommendable.

[Dragavan]

Back in the day, when I would rate your stories with a one, you created quite a fuss. Maybe not on the forums, but with private messages. And yes, three stories ARE a bunch.

Seems like you take being the Devil's Advocate a little too far these days. Anyone who would rate Ves's story with a '1' is CLEARLY an abuser. Especially with no comment left to explain their wanton vandalism.

First off, the reason I made any kind of stink was because you created separate accounts to act as different characters who had different attitudes, and "Old Man Higgens" was a crotchety old fart who hated everything and was rating all sorts of stories with 1's as part of his grumbly character. If he was a real person who really hated the stories, I would not have complained... but it was a joke character you made to play on he forums affecting the "serious" side of the site and that's what I thought was wrong. You screwed up a good, truly earned rating over a forum joke. That was abuse and wrong.

Not liking a story for some reason (who know, perhaps he didn't like it because it made his brain hurt with all those words) is not abuse... although we have no way of knowing why he rated it the way he did since he never left a comment, which I why I always supported the idea of mandatory comments with ratings and possibly a weighted system. I hate Citizen Kane, even though it always tops all the lists of "best movies of all time" that come out in the media from time to time. That doesn't make my low rating of that movie wrong, the same can be said for stories. Rating them for jokes, revenge, and/or multiple times (for good or ill) are what I would seriously call abuse.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

So, we agree... excluding Apoth... that a "best of" list could reduce the stress of unfair and low ratings, and make the site look better as a whole.

Here are some ideas...

for selecting stories:
a) Measurable Standards- we could create measurable standards for people to make the best of list. These standards could include minimum endings, grammar, etc. Measurable standards aren't as exclusive, and might urge others on the site to rise above the mediocrity embraced by society these days.

b) Ves' Idea- elitist choices made by us.

c) We have a vote feature on these forums now. We could make a thread for each story up for consideration and vote. This allows everyone even the people that dislike a story to vote on whether or not it should be on the "best of" list. We could make it once a year, and make a big thing out of it.

for displaying stories:
a) Random order- I discussed this last night with Ves on AIM, and there are multiple benefits of using a randomly generated list.
1. Sev already uses it, so it may not be hard to establish.
2. No one story is going to catch the hearts and minds of everyone that reads it. At least with a random list they have a chance of finding something they like.
3. This list creates a plateau that supersedes the rating system. The ratings won't matter if you make the list no one can take it away from you, and no story is looked upon as higher than another. They are simply all... great.

b) Front page- I think this list should be on the front page so visitors will see them. When company comes to visit we use our fine china, same theory for newcomers. We want to share with them some great stories.

c) I don't remember who suggested it, but the idea to have it as a sorted option could be interesting as well... though, if we can get Sev to agree with the front page idea, it will be sufficient.

Other things:

we need to think about removing stories, at some point is a story eligible to be removed? What is the process for that going to be? How many stories are we going to put on the list to start? I'm sure there's more, but I'm drawing a blank.

~Katie

One more thing... if we nominate stories like we do for the contest, someone should really convince Apoth to get behind this. Because, we will probably want his math skills. Plus, HOID isn't so bad, it is a good place for beginners to start if they are looking to try out the platform.