dnewton is a punkass bitch

[donteatpoop]

I think it should be a top 50 list; just cause that's a nice round number.

[End Master]

I was going to say a top 20 list.

EDIT

Okay here’s a top 20, based on former contest winners, ratings, forum activity, writing activity, and a good “mix” of stories.

If we’re going “elitist” here, then I’m suggesting that me and DEP get at least two stories on the top 20.

Time Traveller (Agent Rebellion)
HOID (Apoth)
Forest Dweller (Calen)
Final Quest (Cat 2000)
CRACK ATTACK! (Chubby)
Brothers (DEP)
Paco Valdez (DEP)
From Darkness It Comes (Drag)
Necromancer (End)
Ground Zero (End)
The Black Citadel (Funkymango)
5050 (Ghost)
Draco Cronnoc (Jeff)
Lost in a Good Book (Katie)
Blind Date (Lucid)
Visual Epic (Morathi)
The Yakuza Diaries (Poopypeanuts)
The Thief of Alvera (Thoric)
Rentyre (Usoki)
The Country from Hell (Ves)

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

If Drag's sex story is in, I think one of mine might be ok in.... although it isn't representative of all the other stories on the site. I dunno... whatever everyone wants is fine by me.
~Katie

[End Master]

I didn't include any MA stories. And I figured Drag is prouder of the Darkness story anyway.

The "controversial" and "offensive" story is represented by CRACK ATTACK! mainly because it's rated highly, it's still "R" and it's Chubby only story that he's got on here right now.

[Vesnic]

It looks like a pretty good list to me, even without my Pulitzer prize-winner Gurl PowR!

The one thing that jumped out at me is I think Paradox Factor is more deserving of the list than Blind Date, as far as Lucid's stuff goes.

[End Master]

I guess it could be a toss up between those two.

I just figured Blind Date could represent the "Romance" stories though and I didn't have any of those on the list given that half of them suck and the other half are MA.

[apotheosis]

I really think we could patch up our current system with a ratings moderator and members simply being more diligent about rating stories. Then the top rated section would serve the purpose of this list you guys are making up and it would not be necessary.

[Locke]

I agree with Apoth that nothing over what we have now is really necessary; I'm fine with the way things are. I'm also okay with having a "best of" list, though, and as it seems that most are in favor of it, bring it on - though perhaps with a title that reflects more of a "members' choice" and less of an "elitest" feel. I don't see any reason to stick with a particular number of favorite stories; making it a "top twenty" may result in including a few stories that don't deserve it, or excluding a few that do. Regardless of other factors, simply include those stories worthy of being listed. If that results in certain authors being disproportionately represented, so be it.

As far as removing stories goes, if we're going to put this to an annual vote or some such, just start from scratch each time. Every IS story is always elegible, none gets any kind of "tenure." That will keep the list fresh and allow it to truly represent the best IS has to offer as new and better stories rotate in, while those that might no longer be considered top caliber are retired.

When I was new to this site, like a lot of other readers, I had a hard time finding the really good stories amid the significantly larger number of mediocre and plain bad ones. A "members' choice" list has in its favor less hassle and more appeal for guests, meaning that we keep more of them; I can't see how, with the addition of a little responsibility, it couldn't be of benefit to IS. If members decide differently, though, it can always be removed.

EDIT: It's true that some members, myself included, could be more diligent about rating stories. That'd certainly help out the site no matter what else, if anything, is done. Some sort of moderator system might indeed solve the ratings issue, in the unlikely event Sev were to appoint one, though given a choice between the two I'm in favor of the new list, and measures like the list that go beyond addressing the issue at hand should be considered on their own merits anyway based on what they bring to the site. Requiring a comment with each reader's rating, perhaps of a minimum length, seems like another good idea, and a simple one, that could be adopted on its own or with any of the other propositions.

[End Master]

Well obviously a Mod would be more ideal and solve most of these problems, but it's pretty much been established in the past that Sev likes to keep his site a one man operation.

As far as I know he's only offered Drag the job, and he didn't want it.

[Hi! My name is: Katie]

my 2 cents

Apoth: We can't force other people to rate stories fairly. We don't even have a way to "train" them on how to use the rating system. We could establish guidelines, and we could post them on every page, but there are people that would still abuse the system.

As for having a Moderator, I am almost completely against it. No censorship on IS stories.

Locke: I agree that we don't NEED this system, but that it could be beneficial to the site as a whole. I also like the idea of starting fresh each year. "Member's Choice" has a nice ring to it as well.

End: Drag would be a decent moderator, he wouldn't just fold because people whine. He has really strong ethics, and doesn't generally lose his temper, or act irrationally. However, as it is often with the best leaders... he doesn't want the job. And really, I don't understand why anyone would want the job of suppressing the opinions of others or listening to whiners.

This list removes the rating issue entirely. The new goal isn't 10. The new goal is to be considered good enough for the list.

Also, since it is a randomly refreshed list we don't necessarily need to limit it.

[donteatpoop]

I love telling people to stop whining while suppressing the thoughts of others.

But I think the 'four council members' is a good idea. Two of them approve, then the motion is approved.

Anyway, yeah; the list of 20 is cool. It might be easier to get severenz to do that than any of the other suggested fixes. I like bigger lists, though; cause there are more than 20 high quality stories on here. But whatever. (25 anyone?)

[Vesnic]

Let's use the list that End came up with as a working list and now people can add to it if there is something they feel should be there. I'm inclined to agree that there shouldn't be a set limit to the list--story quality is already a limiting factor to what gets added.

Katie, Locke and I have all said something to the effect that generating this list is not going to do any damage or change pre-existing ratings. It's really a nice thing to do for the people who are casually visiting the site, and a nice thing for us to do for ourselves since it involves peer recognition from the people whose views we are more likely to care about. Who knows? We might even get some more high-quality traffic if potential writers stay around longer because they actually get a good first impression from the site and not something of the mildly retarded Poko-Adventure ilk.

[End Master]

Here's another 5 stories as suggestions

A Tale of Two Choices (Bassoonist)
The Adventures of George W. Bush (curmudgeon)
Paradox Factor (Lucid)
Puppetmaster (Nalan)
Swift, Silent & Deadly (NCPolice)

[Usoki]

Yes, the moderator is a very good solution to the ratings problem. It's also the third or fourth time I've seen it proposed, along with the weighted ratings proposal. It's not going to happen. Sev would have done something about it.

Quite frankly, the list is awesome in several ways. One, it will provide newcomers with quality material. An easy way to see 25+ examples of awesome work? I think it'll definitely improve the retention rate of first-time viewers. As Ves points out, someone new is more likely to stumble upon "Poko-Adventure" crap than they are to stumble upon something awesome. And if they see too much of it? They'll assume the site sucks, and they'll leave. It doesn't help that the "Most Popular" and "Newest Stories" lists are filled with crap that gets main page attention. If I were to browse HOID and somehow miss the few doors that don't suck, I'd assume it's a piece of shit. It's the most popular, and 95% of the damn thing is a list of even more doors. The other "Most Popular" are, as I recall, even worse. Not exactly the best thing to have on our front page. A list of quality would serve the sight far better.

And two, this is something that Sev with be able to initiate, no muss no fuss. I can totally see him implementing this- I don't know much about coding, but I do know it's got to be loads easier than most of the features we ask of him.

Finally, it's win-win. Sev has a very good opportunity to help site traffic, and we have something to strive for. Story ratings come and go- they're generally good to search by, but they're not always the most accurate. This list would be more helpful. If it's on the list, it doesn't suck- even if it is 6.8. Or whatever.

A question, though. I note End's list is limiting one story per author. Is that a limit we really want/need to keep? My ego will survive if End gets three stories on the list and I only get one; and I think it's a fair guess to say so would everyone else's. I think it's much better to focus on quality stories than it is quality authors. Like you've pointed out by trying to pick Lucid's story... Many of us have stories in several different genres. If someone doesn't like romance, they'd never examine the rest of Lucid's work. Just like someone who hates Apocalyptic works might skip End's Ground Zero and never see Necromancer.

[End Master]

I posted the list proposal in the suggestion forum.

EDIT: Kept the double stories for DEP, me and Lucid.